2020 Democratic Candidates Tracker Part III

[TurkeysGhost]

And you just did it again. "Bernie will be treated the same as all the other candidates, so we should go with him."

THAT'S EQUALLY TRUE FOR ALL THE OTHER CANDIDATES AS WELL!

No, I think we should go with Bernie because Bernie has good policies and is electable.

I didn't bring up negative ads. Segnosaur heavily implied that Bernie is uniquely vulnerable to negative ads. I dispute that.

 

[Belz...]

And they might be just as wrong as some of us may be.

I remember being thrilled when the R's went with the Trumpster. I considered him to be the only one of the final few potential candidates that could lose to HRC.

Boy, did that bite us on the ass.

Oh, you're absolutely right. But I'm not talking about you or me, but the party itself. They probaly have a good plan to take him down a notch. Maybe not, but probably.

 

[Belz...]

Yes, because taking Republican talking points at face value is a good idea. They certainly can't just being trying to sow more chaos in the Democratic primary.

Just because someone says something doesn't make it a talking point.

 

[Segnosaur]

No, I think we should go with Bernie because Bernie has good policies and is electable.

I didn't bring up negative ads. Segnosaur heavily implied that Bernie is uniquely vulnerable to negative ads. I dispute that.

Yes because ALL The democratic candidates went to "death to America" rallies, and had honeymoons in Communist Russia where they badmouth the United States.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

Yes because ALL The democratic candidates went to "death to America" rallies, and had honeymoons in Communist Russia where they badmouth the United States.

Is this negative attack going to stick? I don't know. Is there any way to measure this potential?

 

[Segnosaur]

No, I think we should go with Bernie because Bernie has good policies and is electable.

Good policies? Like his "medicare for all" plan that actually has less supporters than the idea of getting government completely out of health care?

Yeah, sounds like a winning policy to me.

 

[Segnosaur]

Yes because ALL The democratic candidates went to "death to America" rallies, and had honeymoons in Communist Russia where they badmouth the United States.

Is this negative attack going to stick? I don't know. Is there any way to measure this potential?

Actually you've now convinced that Sanders is magical, and they can have video proof of him hanging out with Bin Laden and somehow he will somehow managed to come out on top.

Some might say that Sanders is more vulnerable simply because a combination of the length of time in politics combined with his marginal political attitudes would lead to a candidate having more potential problems to exploit. But hey, Magical Sanders can weather all attacks!

And the fact that many republicans seem to prefer Sanders as the democratic candidate? Well, that's just evidence of how the republicans favor a diverse set of political options, and is in no way suggestive that they would think he's the weaker candidate.

Magical Sanders for the Democratic nominee!

 

[TurkeysGhost]

Magical Sanders for the Democratic nominee!

Glad to have you aboard. Be sure to download the app and see if you can volunteer.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

Just when you thought the Iowa caucus dumpster fire was finally burning down, here's comes a fresh load of fuel:

DNC chair Perez announces a re-canvas.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/dnc-chair-calls-for-recanvas-in-iowa/2020/02/06/0ec4dc4c-4906-11ea-9164-d3154ad8a5cd_story.html

Who knows how long this will take. NH primary is Tuesday.

 

[The_Animus]

"Bernie's the best nominee because they're gonna attack and smear everyone so it doesn't matter" isn't wowing me as an argument.

Good thing no one made that argument then.

No one said Sanders is the best nominee because of that. We've said that using "they're gonna attack Bernie" as an argument for why he won't win is silly because that argument applies to literally every candidate.

 

[The_Animus]

Everything is speculation and you're argument seems to be "Since nothing is certain we should do it my way."

Stop acting like you're arguing from some mountain of concrete certainty the rest of us aren't.

You sure love intentionally misrepresenting people's arguments to make them easier to refute. If only there were a term for that. Maybe a fallacy of some sort.

 

[The_Animus]

And you just did it again. "Bernie will be treated the same as all the other candidates, so we should go with him."

THAT'S EQUALLY TRUE FOR ALL THE OTHER CANDIDATES AS WELL!

Nope that's not what he said.

Have you become incapable of anything other than pitching straw?

 

[TragicMonkey]

Gosh, all this Bernie talk sure is making people crabby. I have a compromise! All those who think Bernie can't win, and all those who think Bernie can win, should support Warren. That way we're completely safe from both the success and failure of Bernie! I literally see no downside to this elegant compromise!

 

[Segnosaur]

Gosh, all this Bernie talk sure is making people crabby. I have a compromise! All those who think Bernie can't win, and all those who think Bernie can win, should support Warren. That way we're completely safe from both the success and failure of Bernie! I literally see no downside to this elegant compromise!

How do you define someone who thinks "Bernie can win"?

Are you referring to his supporters who think he's the best choice?

What about people like me, who think that he could win, but that there are issues that make his victory a little less likely than other candidates? Do I count among those who think Bernie can win?

 

[TragicMonkey]

How do you define someone who thinks "Bernie can win"?

Are you referring to his supporters who think he's the best choice?

What about people like me, who think that he could win, but that there are issues that make his victory a little less likely than other candidates? Do I count among those who think Bernie can win?

I'm not certain how to classify you, so just to be safe you should support Warren.

 

[Segnosaur]

How do you define someone who thinks "Bernie can win"?

Are you referring to his supporters who think he's the best choice?

What about people like me, who think that he could win, but that there are issues that make his victory a little less likely than other candidates? Do I count among those who think Bernie can win?

I'm not certain how to classify you, so just to be safe you should support Warren.

I'm Canadian, so if I support Warren I will have to sneak across the border to vote. (It should be easy, according to Trump.)

My first choice in the primaries was probably Corey Booker... decent amount of experience in the senate, young enough to bring in the youth vote, seemed like a decent set of policies.

Of the people that are left, Warren would probably be my preference. Biden is too prone to gaffs, I don't like a lot of Sanders' plans, Buttigieg doesn't really have experience in national politics, Bloomberg's self-financing may make it seem like he's "buying" the election, and none of the other candidates seem to be getting much traction.

However, I do have to say, I would take ANY of the democratic candidates over Trump.

 

[dudalb]

"I keep asking people who already agree with me if they agree with me and they all seem to agree. I don't see what the issue is."

That old story about the women who 1in 1972 lived in a liberal college town in New England, all her friends were liberal,she only read libeal magazines and newspapers, and then she was shocked when Nixon won over McGovern :'Nobody I knew voted for him!:.

 

[dudalb]

Good policies? Like his "medicare for all" plan that actually has less supporters than the idea of getting government completely out of health care?

Yeah, sounds like a winning policy to me.

Funny how the Bernie supporters here keep quiet about his Medicare for All plan.

 

[dudalb]

The original post that started this whole tedious back and forth was this:



This is a strawman. Increased voter turnout is only a small aspect of Bernie's strategy, and his high polling indicates mainstream voters are open to supporting Bernie. Bernie clearly intends to woo normal Democrats, swing voters, and perhaps some conservative voters to win this thing. Dem-soc types are among some of his most vocal and ardent supporters, but are only a small part of his support base.

Perhaps I misunderstood your replies to this original post, but it seemed like to me you were seconding this deliberately uncharitable interpretation.

He better start doing that now.
I think Amereicans want reform, think the country has gone too far to the right,but I don't think they want to go anywhere near as far to the left as the Dem Socs want.
Problem is that Bernie has long proclaimed himself to be a Dem Soc, and I am not sure he can pivot more to the center,like he has to to win in November.
The Danger is that a lot of people might find Sanders and Trump equally scary, and just stay home.

 

[Segnosaur]

Good policies? Like his "medicare for all" plan that actually has less supporters than the idea of getting government completely out of health care?

Yeah, sounds like a winning policy to me.

Funny how the Bernie supporters here keep quiet about his Medicare for All plan.

Not all of them keep quiet.

Some of them act with incredulity. (What, he said he'd get rid of private health insurance? I don't believe it. What, you have a reference that shows him saying that? Well, I'll just read between the lines and make up something to suggest he won't actually do that.)

Some of them draw false equivalences. (Falsely assuming that support for universal health care means support for medicare-for-all, despite them not being the same thing.)

And yet others jump in and try to justify why "medicare for all" is superior (look at how much cheaper it would be!) ignoring the fact that even IF it were superior (hint: its not; there are better ways to give universal coverage) that doesn't mean the electorate will get behind it.