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Cont: House Impeachment Inquiry - part 3

Meadmaker said:
I don't know exactly how to compare which one is worse.
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You said you agreed with TragicMonkey when he said "Skullduggery to gain advantage over the nation's foreign enemies is far more forgivable than skullduggery to gain advantage over one's personal domestic rivals". Did you not mean to agree to that?

Trump, on the other hand, was carrying out long standing policy (of controlling corruption in Ukraine) but twisting it to his own interest.
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Trump didn't care about corruption in Ukraine. We have witness testimony that he didn't care. We have witness testimony that he didn't even care about an actual investigation into the Bidens, just in the announcement of the same. We also have his own legal defence team admitting that Trump didn't care about any corruption outside of the Bidens, or prior to wanting the investigation announced. We also have evidence that he was working against the ambassador who was actively engaged in fighting corruption. We know that Trump helped cover up corruption in Ukraine, when it related to his own campaign. We know that during the trial Trump made a public pro-corruption statement when talking about how it should be legal for US companies to pay bribes when doing business abroad. And we know that Trump deliberately avoided using the actual channels that exist for combating corruption in Ukraine and instead had his personal attorney go over there on what his own defence team admitted was purely personal business entirely unconnected from US policy.

So, no, your statement doesn't wash at all.

At the end of the day, Congressional mandates were followed, although slightly delayed.
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Firstly, the he released the aid after he was caught doesn't mitigate anything. If I rob a bank, see police when I leave the building, and then throw the money back inside the door, I'm still guilty of robbing a bank. I don't get to say "see? I put the money back! I didn't do anything wrong!"

Secondly, congressional mandates were not followed. It's mandated that all of the allotted money must be spent. They were warned repeatedly that withholding the aid would mean that it couldn't all be spent, and that is indeed what happened.

Really, if you could make me a congressman and force me to vote in either case, I don't know which way I would vote. The actual act of voting, of making a decision that matters as opposed to just yapping about what you would do, tends to influence what you're thinking.
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I'd hope so. That's why I'd hope you wouldn't be driven by who you do or do not "hate" at all, but instead by the facts which, in this case, really aren't ambiguous at all.
 
https://twitter.com/AaronBlake/status/1224447070397820936?s=20

BREAKING:

Sen. Joe Manchin (http://D-W.Va .) is calling for a censure vote on Trump

There doesn't seem to be much appetite for censure. Dems see it as half-measure, and many Rs say Trump did nothing wrong.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...bafff4-4673-11ea-8124-0ca81effcdfb_story.html …

But there is a group of Republicans who say Trump did something wrong, and this would put them on the spot:

List of GOP senators who have criticized Trump's Ukraine actions (in some form):

1. Alexander
2. Romney
3. Murkowski
4. Ernst
5. Portman
6. Toomey
7. Grassley
8. Collins
9. Sasse

Missing any?

10. Burr
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uke2se said:
That would be an impeachable offense, would it not?
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Hope springs eternal.




(But, to take the question somewhat more seriously than it deserves, it could be, but it's a tough sell. I think an attempt to win the election in November is a better chance of getting Trump out of office.)
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
Let them. It's just like all the rest of their BS claims like that they have a replacement for the ACA and like Trump is going to prosecute Clinton when he gets elected.
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I suppose a president could avail himself or herself of a vice-president that the GOP would rather not have to deal with as a way to shield himself or herself from impeachment...
 
CapelDodger said:
I agree they've mostly not bought into the conspiracy itself, but they've bought into it as a tactic for 2020. It's this year's Clinton Emails : the rest of the script remains unchanged.
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Trump helped Russia in delaying Ukraine aid during a war. Has he ever said jack**** about corruption in Russia?

What's the word for helping an enemy during wartime?

Republicans senators know this; on their own they started making calls about what the hangup was re: Ukraine aid. IMO, they were rather disturbed about it. I think some do take the Russian threat seriously; they've said as much. I only wonder if they don't care anymore, or if they think they can neutralize Trump's damage to national security until after they've been safely re-elected.
 
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Squeegee Beckenheim said:
It's being reported that Trump is looking for "payback" against people who were against him on impeachment

Names mentioned are Schiff, Nadler, Romney, and Bolton. Bolton is reportedly "at the top of the list" with Trump seeking a criminal investigation in to him.
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A sore winner. One may hope he is so consumed with fantasies of revenge that he takes his eye off the ball and goes full-on vituperative maniac fighting a two-front war.

ETA: Plus he knows there's at least one mole in the White House.
 
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Minoosh said:
Trump helped Russia in delaying Ukraine aid during a war. Has he ever said jack**** about corruption in Russia?

What's the word for helping an enemy during wartime?

Republicans senators know this; on their own they started making calls about what the hangup was re: Ukraine aid. IMO, they were rather disturbed about it. I think some do take the Russian threat seriously; they've said as much. I only wonder if they don't care anymore, or if they think they can neutralize Trump's damage to national security until after they've been safely re-elected.
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Has he said anything about corruption anywhere? The fact is Trump wasn't concerned about corruption. He was just looking for a scandal to follow Biden.
 
Squeegee Beckenheim said:
It's being reported that Trump is looking for "payback" against people who were against him on impeachment

Names mentioned are Schiff, Nadler, Romney, and Bolton. Bolton is reportedly "at the top of the list" with Trump seeking a criminal investigation in to him.
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Not sure what he can do to any of these people. Tweet nasty things?

Schiff and Nadler were Democrats who were always going to be Trump's targets regardless. Romney won his election comfortably, and besides, he is still less than 2 years into his term.

The only one who might be at risk is Bolton (and I'm sure many left-leaning people won't be sad to see him suffer). But, in order to have him charged there has to be things like evidence (and even with Trump nominees contaminating the judiciary, I doubt it will help him win a conviction here.) Worst case is probably an 'investigation' that gets quietly dropped after a few months (like the Clinton Uranium 1 investigation before that.)
 
Schiff: fabricating evidence

Nadler: electronic espionage

Bolton: mishandling classified materials

What's awful is there's a kernel of "truth" in each.

Schiff was somewhat reckless in that moment. With Nadler you might wonder what else he had recorded and how securely did it get stored. Bolton probably did nothing wrong, his properly submitted draft for NSA review was leaked, but "Bolton published it in his book" is easier to remember.
 
Segnosaur said:
Not sure what he can do to any of these people. Tweet nasty things?

Schiff and Nadler were Democrats who were always going to be Trump's targets regardless. Romney won his election comfortably, and besides, he is still less than 2 years into his term.

The only one who might be at risk is Bolton (and I'm sure many left-leaning people won't be sad to see him suffer). But, in order to have him charged there has to be things like evidence (and even with Trump nominees contaminating the judiciary, I doubt it will help him win a conviction here.) Worst case is probably an 'investigation' that gets quietly dropped after a few months (like the Clinton Uranium 1 investigation before that.)
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He'll pressure foreign countries to announce corruption investigations into anyone he dislikes, of course. That's allowed. He literally got away with doing that, so he'll repeat the behavior.
 
TragicMonkey said:
He'll pressure foreign countries to announce corruption investigations into anyone he dislikes, of course. That's allowed. He literally got away with doing that, so he'll repeat the behavior.
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As time goes on, he has a more and more compliant DOJ, as well.
 
Belz... said:
Say what?
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Trump accused Schiff of making stuff up with regards to his Ukraine call. Schiff wasn't accurate, but Trump's wailing rings hollow considering his actions. He actively hid a transcript, he lied to the American public repeatedly, etc. I, personally, hope he goes after both Schiff and Nadler. Both of them won their districts by 50%+ over the opposing candidate. I highly doubt he'll do much damage there, let him squawk.

That being said, Bolton I think is a completely different animal all together. I don't know what he knows, but I know it's isn't all in that book. If I were Trump I'd probably be significantly concerned about Bolton getting upset and throwing all of the closet skellies into the yard.
 
plague311 said:
Trump accused Schiff of making stuff up with regards to his Ukraine call. Schiff wasn't accurate,
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Actually, he was accurate, if one pays attention to all of what he said. Going further, there's not even a kernel of truth to any fabricating evidence charge.
 
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