Cont: House Impeachment Inquiry - part 3

[PhantomWolf]

That's literally the only reason.
Doing any actual legislation would dispell the narrative that government doesn't work.

Well not the only reason, they are busy packing the lower courts for picks from the Federalist Society list too, all the opening that they refused to confirm when Obama was in office.

ETA: Which includes a guy that has never set foot in a courtroom as a lawyer during his entire career, and the wife and the lobbiest that told Moscow Mitch about Oleg Deripaska wanting help out the dear people of Kentucky with a $200 million investment in their Aluminum smelter if the sanctions on his companies was lifted.

 

[The Great Zaganza]

The Trial must painfully cut into the process of packing the Courts with fanatics.

 

[Grizzly Bear]

This is typical of the Democrats, Pelosi caved to the GOP complaining about dragging things out. And I suspect they believed their Obstruction of Congress Article would have some impact explaining the reason for not pushing subpoenas.

They were right of course about Trump holding everything up in the courts. But I suppose if they had pushed for the subpoenas, McConnell would simply have made that his focus of complaint.

Pressure from other democrats is more likely, and then, a bit from the Republicans threatening to push for a dismissal of the impeachment articles if they weren't submitted to the senate. Former, very likely because they had made the case that the impeachment had to be carried out with haste, and the month-long delay in transmitting the articles was working against that message. Much as people make the impeachment a serious issue, there's a line of optics that the steps they took gives off.

 

[Ladewig]

I don't know about that. This could be a good wedge issue for the Dems. The Senate map looks a bit rougher for Trumptrash than it did in 2018. Calling witnesses was wildly popular with the electorate, like in the 70s popular.

But this is the we’ve-always-been-at-war-with-Eastasia world.

I’d bet money if you polled people in 7 months and asked, “did you ever support the idea of the senate calling witnesses” you would get a result between 40 and 60%.

 

[Minoosh]

I was under the impression that those, like so absurdly many other things, remained in litigation. There's a LOT of those, though, and it sure feels like they're being slow walked despite their obvious urgency.

I'm not at at all sure there are any outstanding subpoenas for individuals in the impeachment case. Documents, yes, and I hope these subpoenas are still in play. Records were sought from Pompeo, Pence, Giuliani and others. Earlier, Don McGahn and other records were subpoenaed in relation to the Mueller obstruction investigation. Bolton aide Kupperman was subpoenaed in relation to the impeachment trial but as far as I know the House withdrew that as moot.

Maybe someone who paid more attention than I did can set me straight.
What other House subpoenas remain, and what's been sought from other jurisdictions? I believe New York state was after his tax returns, and that federal prosecutors are taking a hard look at Giuliani even as their big boss is conspiring with him to conduct shadow diplomacy.

 

[Minoosh]

He hasn't done it by himself, either. In fact, most of the damage -- religious right judges/justices, gutting environmental regulation, abuse of immigrants, etc. -- would have been done by any of the others on the Klown Kar as well.

SC justices, yes, but I think the president would not have put forth so many obviously unqualified candidates. The constant fear mongering about immigration would have been toned down considerably. And if families were separated, the government wouldn't have been so inept it lost a bunch of kids in the process. Same with other issues. A different GOP president wouldn't be obsessed with undoing everything Obama had done.

I guess it depends on which Republican won. Ted Cruz would have rivaled Trump in sheer creepiness. Some others weren't so bad. But none of them would have actually found a lost tribe as Trump appeared to do. MAGA and all that.

None of them would have kowtowed to Putin, I don't think.

 

[Minoosh]

And the year is young. Trump and his administration will keep stepping into kaka. I salute Democrats for doing the right thing even if their execution wasn't perfect. I hope the closing argument will point to how far the GOP has gone, just in the past week, to normalize Trump's behavior. A handful of senators are even acknowledging this.

This stops me, though: Trump was using a flimsy excuse to drag the Bidens through the mud and he'll get away with it. But this is behavior that clearly benefited Vladimir Putin, and senators know damn well that Russia wants more of Ukraine and that it is meddling in our election. We withheld military aid to our allies who are in a war with Russia. That makes Russia our enemy, and it just so happens that delaying lethal aid bought Putin a few months to study the design of these missiles and exploit weaknesses. Could Trump have caused that info to be leaked? It would be wholly in character.

 

[Elagabalus]

I posted this in another thread:


Case in point.

Are you sure it's a trump supporter?

 

[Craig4]

Maybe the House could ground Trump for a while. They could attach an amendment to a must pass bill going to the Senate that would cut his travel funds or prevent tax dollars being paid to Trump businesses.

 

[Crazy Chainsaw]

Maybe the House could ground Trump for a while. They could attach an amendment to a must pass bill going to the Senate that would cut his travel funds or prevent tax dollars being paid to Trump businesses.

Start Impeachment against the underling's involved in the Crime like 8arr and everyone else in the administration! Tie up the Senate until the election!

 

[Crazy Chainsaw]

McConnell is drooling over RBG's SCOTUS seat.

That's what this has been about since 2008, that's why Rupert Murdock put Hannity on FOX news That's why they will kill if they have to, too get it done no Morals anymore.

 

[Fast Eddie B]

I think that the Democrats played this poorly. I’ve said that all along.

While I agree that withholding military aid for a Biden investigation was bad, and against the law, it was far from the best charge to base impeachment upon. It was too easily muddied by the alleged Biden/Burisma/corruption connection.

Perhaps there was virtually no way to play impeachment that would have resulted in conviction in the Senate. Still, Mueller identified many cases of obstruction that to me were much simpler on their face. As were Emolument Clause violations. As blatant as those cases remain, going back now to charge them would just look desperate.

Anyway, I have zero interest in the Senate trial going forward - which is kinda sad given it’s still historic. But with the outcome no longer in any doubt at all, the whole thing is now just a colossal waste of time and not worthy of my attention.

As it is, all I can do as an ex-Republican is to vote my distaste by voting Democratic across the board in November. I’ll be a Tennessee resident by then, so I doubt my vote will matter.

 

[Fast Eddie B]

This morning in bed I was thinking of TS Eliot. “This is the way Impeachment ends...not with a bang, but a whimper.”

Apparently I wasn’t alone!

 

[Crazy Chainsaw]

I think that the Democrats played this poorly. I’ve said that all along.

While I agree that withholding military aid for a Biden investigation was bad, and against the law, it was far from the best charge to base impeachment upon. It was too easily muddied by the alleged Biden/Burisma/corruption connection.

Perhaps there was virtually no way to play impeachment that would have resulted in conviction in the Senate. Still, Mueller identified many cases of obstruction that to me were much simpler on their face. As were Emolument Clause violations. As blatant as those cases remain, going back now to charge them would just look desperate.

Anyway, I have zero interest in the Senate trial going forward - which is kinda sad given it’s still historic. But with the outcome no longer in any doubt at all, the whole thing is now just a colossal waste of time and not worthy of my attention.

As it is, all I can do as an ex-Republican is to vote my distaste by voting Democratic across the board in November. I’ll be a Tennessee resident by then, so I doubt my vote will matter.

So you think the Democrates lost this, they already knew they couldn't win, this was
Not about Trump but about the Senate and Mitch McConnell.:'

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

I think the Democrats did the best they could - forcing the Republicans to own the lack of witnesses, the suppression of evidence, the obstruction of justice, etc. Now the hope is that the voters a) paid attention, and b) care.

 

[Craig4]

Start Impeachment against the underling's involved in the Crime like 8arr and everyone else in the administration! Tie up the Senate until the election!

That would likely backfire on the Dems. While 50 percent wanted the stupid bitch removed from office, I don't think they also want a paralyzed Congress.

 

[JoeMorgue]

Ginsburg holding out for a few more months and miracle in either the Presidential or Senatorial races in 2020 are our last hope pretty much.

Historical trends and odds are not in our favor.

 

[Craig4]

Ginsburg holding out for a few more months and miracle in either the Presidential or Senatorial races in 2020 are our last hope pretty much.

Historical trends and odds are not in our favor.

What makes you say that? Trump has never had a job approval rating higher than 46 percent. He lost the popular vote by nearly 3 million votes. The districts in Pennsylvania that went for Trump in 2016 went blue in a special and again in 2018. Gardner, Collins and McSally have strong opponents and tough races this year. Trump's coat tails weren't enough for governorships in Kentucky and Louisiana.

It's not a sure thing but we're not in need of a miracle just yet.

 

[JoeMorgue]

What makes you say that? Trump has never had a job approval rating higher than 46 percent. He lost the popular vote by nearly 3 million votes. The districts in Pennsylvania that went for Trump in 2016 went blue in a special and again in 2018. Gardner, Collins and McSally have strong opponents and tough races this year. Trump's coat tails weren't enough for governorships in Kentucky and Louisiana.

- He's had the same mid-40s approval rating since before he won the last election. "Okay but these numbers show Trump will lose" don't work if they also mean he shouldn't have won in 2016.

- "But he lost the popular vote!" would mean something if we where going to get rid of the electoral college in the next 275 days.

- Mid-term elections have never been accurate predictors of which way states are going to vote in the next Presidential election and as trends are little more then glorified astrology.

- He's had three years to cheat, rig the system, and get even more outside interference from Russia even more then 2016.

- He's an incumbent President with single digital unemployment in the most of the key swing states and a strong economy as measured by the overly simple metrics the pundits and media focus on.

- No President in history has accomplished what he was actually elected to accomplish then Trump so the people who elected him have absolutely no reason to not do it again. They want four more years of a troll in office to tweak, and nobody can argue that four more years of Trump won't tweak the libs. That's the single biggest factor.

- The failed impeachment has given him a very strong "I'm cleared, they threw everything they had at me and couldn't touch me" narrative to run on.

 

[shuttlt]

- He's had the same mid-40s approval rating since before he won the last election. "Okay but these numbers show Trump will lose" don't work if they also mean he shouldn't have won in 2016.

- "But he lost the popular vote!" would mean something if we where going to get rid of the electoral college in the next 275 days.

- Mid-term elections have never been accurate predictors of which way states are going to vote in the next Presidential election and as trends are little more then glorified astrology.

- He's had three years to cheat, rig the system, and get even more outside interference from Russia even more then 2016.

- He's an incumbent President with single digital unemployment in the most of the key swing states and a strong economy as measured by the overly simple metrics the pundits and media focus on.

- No President in history has accomplished what he was actually elected to accomplish then Trump so the people who elected him have absolutely no reason to not do it again. They want four more years of a troll in office to tweak, and nobody can argue that four more years of Trump won't tweak the libs. That's the single biggest factor.

- The failed impeachment has given him a very strong "I'm cleared, they threw everything they had at me and couldn't touch me" narrative to run on.

Plus, is it clear that the Democrats will be better able to unify behind their candidate better than 2016?