Cont: House Impeachment Inquiry - part 3

[Cain]

In the US you are seeing the same thing, though ironically it is being done by the "unsavouries" themselves. Democrats and their supporters are fighting for gun controls and making it harder for themselves to own weapons, while Republicans are making it easier for themselves to own and carry weapons. As a result, along with a number of other things, such as the Right regularly restricting rights of those that they deem to be unsavoury (gays, trans, minorities, non-Christians) and that they are becoming a minority themselves, it has been clear for a while that any movement towards a Tyranny would come from the Right with the Republicans, the Alt-Right, and others on the right all cheering it on in the belief that such a Tyranny would give them what they have always wanted without regard for what it would truly mean for the country.

A video accompanies the following tweet: "Weirdest thing about guns in the Kentucky Capitol: if you have one, you’re told to walk around the metal detector. Others must pass through and get wanded."

https://twitter.com/Joe_Gerth/status/1223278777045856257

 

[acbytesla]

And the Dems walked into it, face first.

BS. You're a moron if you think that. Anyone who thinks they know what this means comes this November is talking out their ass.

This trial was a sham. But it's not the Democrats fault it was a sham.

The question is what can the message makers do with this? Who looks bad to the American electorate as a result? This isn't Bill Clinton where a sham of an investigation on Whitewater turned into investigating his sex life. This is the Republican party admitting they weren't ever going to hold a fair trial any way. This could backfire on the GOP as easily as it could on the Democrats.

 

[PhantomWolf]

Well we have tried the nice way and it did not work.
It is moving into the "By Any Means Necessary" territory.

I think that unless someone can get the Military and Police on board, it'd be a very short revolution.

Consider all of the modern State vs Militia where it has come down to a shooting match, who won?

And you have to remember that in all those cases, the State was generally trying to minimise casualties, what do you think it would be like it they decided that casualties didn't matter?

Another issue is that States these days are far more integrated between Republican and Democrats. Yes many have more of one than the other, but unlike in 1861, there is no contiguous set of States who have an overwhelming population that are supporting one side or the other. This means that any violence would not involve States, but rather would end up being more neighbour vs neighbour, and as such there would be a broader ability for the Federal State to declare emergency powers and and then treat those fighting their supporters as Terrorists.

Armed action against the US Government is really not an option these days, and against a Tyrannical Government that is willing to do anything it wants, it would be little more than suicide.

 

[uke2se]

I think that unless someone can get the Military and Police on board, it'd be a very short revolution.

Consider all of the modern State vs Militia where it has come down to a shooting match, who won?

And you have to remember that in all those cases, the State was generally trying to minimise casualties, what do you think it would be like it they decided that casualties didn't matter?

Another issue is that States these days are far more integrated between Republican and Democrats. Yes many have more of one than the other, but unlike in 1861, there is no contiguous set of States who have an overwhelming population that are supporting one side or the other. This means that any violence would not involve States, but rather would end up being more neighbour vs neighbour, and as such there would be a broader ability for the Federal State to declare emergency powers and and then treat those fighting their supporters as Terrorists.

Armed action against the US Government is really not an option these days, and against a Tyrannical Government that is willing to do anything it wants, it would be little more than suicide.

True.

A general strike, massive civil disobedience would be the first step. Attacks targeted at GOP leadership would follow when things get worse.

 

[smartcooky]

Republican Senators are cowards and scumbags one and all

 

[dudalb]

BS. You're a moron if you think that. Anyone who thinks they know what this means comes this November is talking out their ass.

This trial was a sham. But it's not the Democrats fault it was a sham.

The question is what can the message makers do with this? Who looks bad to the American electorate as a result? This isn't Bill Clinton where a sham of an investigation on Whitewater turned into investigating his sex life. This is the Republican party admitting they weren't ever going to hold a fair trial any way. This could backfire on the GOP as easily as it could on the Democrats.

Yeah, the Dems walk right into it is a cheap shot which dodges the issue. It a blantant example of pure tribalism.
Now if the Democrats nominate a candidate who will hand the election to Trump on a Silver Platter I will be the first to give them unmitigated hell.

 

[smartcooky]

Yeah, the Dems walk right into it is a cheap shot which dodges the issue. It a blantant example of pure tribalism.
Now if the Democrats nominate a candidate who will hand the election to Trump on a Silver Platter I will be the first to give them unmitigated hell.

If that happens, they can always hire Bob the Nailer

 

[PhantomWolf]

Hire Bob the Nailer

Is he a sub-contractor to Bob the Builder?

 

[Fast Eddie B]

You're right, he was Impeached for trying to extort a foreign nation into interfering in the elections by damaging his potential challenger on his behalf, but I guess that's not actually rigging the election...

And prior to that, soliciting Russia to aid him. “Russia, if you’re listening...”.

 

[PhantomWolf]

Now if the Democrats nominate a candidate who will hand the election to Trump on a Silver Platter I will be the first to give them unmitigated hell.

Who would that be, all the top choices currently are beating Trump in both National and Swing State polling.

 

[dudalb]

Republican Senators are cowards and scumbags one and all

I have to except Romney. He voted to at least have witnesses.

There are some principled conservatives who are standing up to Trump.
But they have pretty much left the GOP.

But what happened is why nominating somebody who has the best chance of beating Trump should be the one and only concern of the Democrats this year.
And I afraid they are on the verge of handing Trump reelection on a silver platter, imitating what Labor did in the UK.

 

[uke2se]

Yeah, the Dems walk right into it is a cheap shot which dodges the issue. It a blantant example of pure tribalism.
Now if the Democrats nominate a candidate who will hand the election to Trump on a Silver Platter I will be the first to give them unmitigated hell.

It doesn't matter who they nominate. The election will not be fair.

An election won't get you out of this mess. Even if you manage to win the presidency despite the other side openly cheating, and even if you sweep the Senate and House despite gerrymandering, voter suppression and - again - outright cheating, you are still left with a thoroughly sick political system wherein one party has demonstrated that they are no longer willing to abide by the rules that come from living in a democracy. They won't suddenly change even if they should lose the coming rigged election. Meanwhile, people will forget and moderates will start urging Democrats to work with the GOP. In four to eight years, you'll be back at the same place again, likely with an even more rigged playing field.

The solution isn't pretty. The GOP must suffer consequences for their betrayal, and I'm not talking about the ballot box. You guys never finished your civil war.

 

[acbytesla]

Yeah, the Dems walk right into it is a cheap shot which dodges the issue. It a blantant example of pure tribalism.
Now if the Democrats nominate a candidate who will hand the election to Trump on a Silver Platter I will be the first to give them unmitigated hell.

Yeah, God forbid POTUS is held accountable for his actions. I do understand that Republicans think they are privileged and the rules don't apply to them. But it is dangerous to be smug about it.

 

[Fast Eddie B]

Chess games are rarely played all the way to checkmate. Once it’s clear a player is going to lose, resigning is in order.

I just tuned in the Impeachment Trial. It’s pointless. Every vote is going along party lines in favor of the Republicans, of course.

Next week will be closing arguments. I predict they’ll be numbingly repetitive.

What’s the point? Schiff has already said a “trial” without witnesses or documents is not a trial. With the outcome now 100% assured, why drag it out any longer? Like a lost chess game, why not just resign? They won’t, of course, but conceding while articulating clearly the reasons why would make an awful lot of sense.

Regardless, I’m pretty discouraged and tuning out at this point.

 

[dudalb]

Yeah, God forbid POTUS is held accountable for his actions. I do understand that Republicans think they are privileged and the rules don't apply to them. But it is dangerous to be smug about it.

As has been stated; Trump is the kind of person the Founding Fathers were afraid of and designed the Constituion to prevent coming to office. But for the first time in 2016 the system failed bigtime.
Now my greatest fear is that the Left decides what the GOP did is "what works" and we end up like Spain in the 1930's with nothing but a choice between two flavors of Dictatorship.
And I firmly believe some things in politics are just plain wrong, no matter who does it or what policies they are trying to implement.

 

[PhantomWolf]

But what happened is why nominating somebody who has the best chance of beating Trump should be the one and only concern of the Democrats this year.

I disagree. The Democrats best chance is to moblise ever single American that is disgusted by Trump and the GOP's actions, and to convince those that aren't, but are willing to listen that they need to get out and vote Trump out too. The Dems could put up a goat as the Nominee as long as they get every American that thinks that the President using his office to extort a foreign nation into interfering in the US Elections is a disgrace, and that the GOP is as much of a disgrace for kowtowing to him and letting him get away with it, to stop sitting on their couches and moaning about how corrupt Government is, and rather get off their collective backsides and go and vote against Trump and the GOP in every single 2020 race from Dog-catcher to President.

If they can mobilize even a small portion of the 40% of the voting population that didn't vote in 2016 to get out and vote against Trump and the GOP, then the Dems will win a landslide similar to Reagan's 1980 victory.

Is that doable? I think that it is. Remember that on the back of a Blue Surge and anger over Trump, there was an 11% increase in voters in the 2018 mid-terms.

Dems need to make sure that every single Democrat and anti-Trump American gets registered and gets to a voting place, either voting early if they can, or goes on the day and votes not just against Trump, but right the way down the ballot, punishing every single Republican on the ballot.

Do that and as of Nov 7th, you'll see a new USA.

 

[dudalb]

Chess games are rarely played all the way to checkmate. Once it’s clear a player is going to lose, resigning is in order.

I just tuned in the Impeachment Trial. It’s pointless. Every vote is going along party lines in favor of the Republicans, of course.

Next week will be closing arguments. I predict they’ll be numbingly repetitive.

What’s the point? Schiff has already said a “trial” without witnesses or documents is not a trial. With the outcome now 100% assured, why drag it out any longer? Like a lost chess game, why not just resign? They won’t, of course, but conceding while articulating clearly the reasons why would make an awful lot of sense.

Regardless, I’m pretty discouraged and tuning out at this point.

I would feel a little bit better if the GOP was not so blatant about showing they don't give a damn about the evidence they are going to acquit.
I hope they have the decency to at least pass a vote of censure but that is not going to happen.
I think we might well be witnessing the end of America as a Democracy.
I think the Dems want to show the American people just how rigged the trial was, and how the GOP senators threw any kind of legality out the window.
I was against Impeachment because I though that conviction was impossible. I was right.

 

[Stacyhs]

I thought I couldn't have any more contempt for the GOP than I already did. I was wrong.
What they have done in this "trial", especially today, will go down as one of the most shameful events in US Congressional history.

I am thoroughly disgusted with them.

 

[dudalb]

I disagree. The Democrats best chance is to moblise ever single American that is disgusted by Trump and the GOP's actions, and to convince those that aren't, but are willing to listen that they need to get out and vote Trump out too. The Dems could put up a goat as the Nominee as long as they get every American that thinks that the President using his office to extort a foreign nation into interfering in the US Elections is a disgrace, and that the GOP is as much of a disgrace for kowtowing to him and letting him get away with it, to stop sitting on their couches and moaning about how corrupt Government is, and rather get off their collective backsides and go and vote against Trump and the GOP in every single 2020 race from Dog-catcher to President.

If they can mobilize even a small portion of the 40% of the voting population that didn't vote in 2016 to get out and vote against Trump and the GOP, then the Dems will win a landslide similar to Reagan's 1980 victory.

Is that doable? I think that it is. Remember that on the back of a Blue Surge and anger over Trump, there was an 11% increase in voters in the 2018 mid-terms.

Dems need to make sure that every single Democrat and anti-Trump American gets registered and gets to a voting place, either voting early if they can, or goes on the day and votes not just against Trump, but right the way down the ballot, punishing every single Republican on the ballot.

Do that and as of Nov 7th, you'll see a new USA.

You do not understand American politics. It all depends on a few thousand votes in a few swing states as far as the Presidency. It does not matter if you stack up the votes in the Blue states, if you lose in the purple ones.. You have to convince some voters who voted for Trump in 2016 to switch . I maintain somebody as far to the left as Sanders....( and yes, he is far to the left by American standards, which are the only ones that matter as far as the election goes) cannot do that. I have seen NO convincing evidence from the Berniebros to the contrary.

You are dealing in generalaties which mean crap in the final election. All the matters is those few thousand votes in the swing states as long as we have the electorial system. Which I think should be abolished, but that ain't gonna happen before November.

 

[ChristianProgressive]

Which is another way of saying that the positions are black and white.... that having anything other than a black and white view of the situation is sacriligious...

How DARE we insist on clean, honest elections? What do we think we have, an elected government?