Cont: House Impeachment Inquiry - part 3

[tyr_13]

Trump will weather this storm and be reelected. Watch for looting, rioting, assaults, and fires being set. The left-wingers aka Socialists are very sore losers.

Yeah, wouldn't it be crazy if they started blowing up Federal buildings, assassinating doctors, firebombing black churches, shooting up synagogues, sending bombs in the mail, and murdering dozens in El Paso.

This delusions that 'the left' is going to 'start' the political violence is a truly pathetic attempt at owning victim-hood. Trump has encouraged violence. That is on him and supports just like you. Have some personal responsibility.

 

[Lurch]

To be fair, the idea that Donald Trump could hold a conversation with someone and walk away not knowing who that person was or not remembering that person's role in the conversation doesn't seem implausible. He is both narcissistic and delusional. There's no particular reason to believe that he has actual awareness of who he is talking to at all times.

And if he just happens to demand firing an ambassador during that conversation, for most people that would be a pretty big deal and strong evidence that they were actually engaged in that conversation as a serious matter, but for Trump it could just be an impulsive outburst forgotten before dessert. He obviously didn't act on his own demand that Yovanovitch be fired at the time, so it's quite possible that he just forgot, and no one reminded him. A year later, the subject came up again and this time she was actually fired.

No less exculpatory regarding his unfitness for office. *If* we accept your premise, that the man can't exercise any control over those loose lips of his demonstrates abundantly that he has no business in Government--as a janitor.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

To be fair, the idea that Donald Trump could hold a conversation with someone and walk away not knowing who that person was or not remembering that person's role in the conversation doesn't seem implausible. He is both narcissistic and delusional. There's no particular reason to believe that he has actual awareness of who he is talking to at all times.

And if he just happens to demand firing an ambassador during that conversation, for most people that would be a pretty big deal and strong evidence that they were actually engaged in that conversation as a serious matter, but for Trump it could just be an impulsive outburst forgotten before dessert. He obviously didn't act on his own demand that Yovanovitch be fired at the time, so it's quite possible that he just forgot, and no one reminded him. A year later, the subject came up again and this time she was actually fired.

TBF, he can't pick and choose Trumpisms to suit his needs.

Well he shouldn't be able to but he does and certain people don't call him on it.

He has a perfect memory, remember?

 

[Lurch]

Parnas said the order part was directed at the white house aide there.

And that makes it all Okie Dokie? At the very least Trump's still blabbing on about sensitive administration matters in the presence of people he supposedly doesn't know (and interacting with on that very topic), while being recorded, no less!

Why is it necessary to try to dissect every microscopic element in isolation? The totality of the thing speaks for itself.

 

[BobTheCoward]

And that makes it all Okie Dokie? At the very least Trump's still blabbing on about sensitive administration matters in the presence of people he supposedly doesn't know (and interacting with on that very topic), while being recorded, no less!

Why is it necessary to try to dissect every microscopic element in isolation? The totality of the thing speaks for itself.

It is being presented as evidence he knows Parnas.

 

[acbytesla]

Because Trump is a moron who can't resist talking about himself.

Did he know Lev Parnas? Probably. On the other hand, the tape is made with a bunch of donors. Who knows whether Trump had any more knowledge of Lev than "one of those guys I have to talk to because they give a lot of money."

My intention isn't to defend Trump, as such. I just look at this as one more "gotcha!" moment. Since he got into the race in 2015, he's been handing "gotchas" to the media day after day. He's a master of distraction, and his opponents in politics and the press fall for it every time.

I don't care if he knew Lev Parnas, and the fact that he's lying about this is no worse than his general propensity toward lying. There's no gotcha there.

You've basically said there is no such thing as a "gotcha" for Trump.

The man has told 16,000 plus public lies since he's been elected. That's an average of 15 public lies a day. That doesn't even include the lies he tells staffers or his wife and kids. He's mollycoddled our enemies, ignored the murder of a Washington Post reporter, massacres in Syria as well as bribed/extorted foreign leaders to smear his political opponents.

Yes, I'm sure you don't care about Trump lying about knowing another person who can tie him to the Ukrainian scandal. If you're a Republican, you just don't care.

 

[Meadmaker]

You've basically said there is no such thing as a "gotcha" for Trump.

The man has told 16,000 plus public lies since he's been elected. That's an average of 15 public lies a day. That doesn't even include the lies he tells staffers or his wife and kids. He's mollycoddled our enemies, ignored the murder of a Washington Post reporter, massacres in Syria as well as bribed/extorted foreign leaders to smear his political opponents.

Yes, I'm sure you don't care about Trump lying about knowing another person who can tie him to the Ukrainian scandal. If you're a Republican, you just don't care.

Do you know who can tie Trump to the Ukraine scandal? Trump.

That's what so many people are missing. The House Managers spent a lot of time laying out a case that it was obvious that Trump was in the loop at every step of the way. Well, good for them, but they could have just read the transcript of the phone call. Not only was he in the loop, he was pulling the string, and he admits it. No, he doesn't admit it. He brags about it.

You've really got the goods on him now that this Parnas guy has come forward.

Convincing the American voter that Trump was involved with the Ukraine scandal means absolutely nothing. They already know that. To win, you have to convince them that it's a scandal.

ETA: Specifically to this:

You've basically said there is no such thing as a "gotcha" for Trump.

Pretty much. Part of his appeal is that he basically tells the media to take their gotchas and stick it.

 

[acbytesla]

Do you know who can tie Trump to the Ukraine scandal? Trump.

That's what so many people are missing. The House Managers spent a lot of time laying out a case that it was obvious that Trump was in the loop at every step of the way. Well, good for them, but they could have just read the transcript of the phone call. Not only was he in the loop, he was pulling the string, and he admits it. No, he doesn't admit it. He brags about it.

You've really got the goods on him now that this Parnas guy has come forward.

Convincing the American voter that Trump was involved with the Ukraine scandal means absolutely nothing. They already know that. To win, you have to convince them that it's a scandal.

You don't think it is? You think a President has the right to withhold Congressionally authorized military aid to an ally on the condition they announce an investigation into your political rival. And then cover it up and then order everyone in the government not to cooperate with Congress?

Do you think 400 million dollars of US taxpayer funds belong to a President? Do you think that is an appropriate use of the power of the Presidency? Or do you think like Trump does and the Constitution gives him the right to do whatever he wants? That the call was perfect?

 

[acbytesla]

You don't think it is? You think a President has the right to withhold Congressionally authorized military aid to an ally on the condition they announce an investigation into your political rival. And then cover it up and then order everyone in the government not to cooperate with Congress?

Do you think 400 million dollars of US taxpayer funds belong to a President? Do you think that is an appropriate use of the power of the Presidency? Or do you think like Trump does and the Constitution gives him the right to do whatever he wants? That the call was perfect?

And if you think it was perfect, why cover it up?

Why not let aides and the DOD and the State Department testify?

Seriously, if you think this is all appropriate why worry about it becoming public? Why threaten the Whistleblower? Why not be like Colonel Jessup in A Few Good Men? Why not stand proud for your principles?

 

[Meadmaker]

You don't think it is?

What a very interesting question.

Yes, I think it is.

 

[acbytesla]

What a very interesting question.

Yes, I think it is.

It really comes down to that.

 

[a_unique_person]

Ummm ... If he didn't really know parnas, then why exactly would he get into discussions about foreign policy with someone there he didn't know? Sounds like a big security problem to me.

Sent from my LM-X320 using Tapatalk

At a super PAC meeting which is never supposed to happen. Bizzaro world. Trump truly sees himself as the Nietzschean Superman, master of his universe, in control of everything everywhere at all times. Did you know that Kim Jong Un is good at golf? Only a super man knows that.

 

[a_unique_person]

You've basically said there is no such thing as a "gotcha" for Trump.



The man has told 16,000 plus public lies since he's been elected. That's an average of 15 public lies a day. That doesn't even include the lies he tells staffers or his wife and kids. He's mollycoddled our enemies, ignored the murder of a Washington Post reporter, massacres in Syria as well as bribed/extorted foreign leaders to smear his political opponents.



Yes, I'm sure you don't care about Trump lying about knowing another person who can tie him to the Ukrainian scandal. If you're a Republican, you just don't care.

Yes. It's always JTBT. Just Trump being Trump.

 

[acbytesla]

Yes. It's always JTBT. Just Trump being Trump.

I had a discussion yesterday with 5 Trump supporters yesterday all wearing Trump paraphernalia and said some of these things to them. They didn't even try to refute any of them. They just said "so"?

It just doesn't matter or phase them.

 

[Stacyhs]

I find it interesting...and scary... that Trump would order the firing of a respected, experienced, and long time diplomat on the word of someone he claims he didn't know/can't remember. That some real good presidentin' there.

 

[Meadmaker]

It really comes down to that.

But I only have one vote.



I do not think it's the most outlandish thing a president has ever done. I don't think it's a crisis that rocks America to its foundations.

Most importantly, if someone tells me that they don't see it as a scandal, or they see it as a very minor scandal of very little consequence, I don't hate them for it.


I don't think he ought to get away with it. However, by impeaching him, I fear that the Democrats will end up letting him get away with it. Some of you will find that combination of statements puzzling.

 

[Minoosh]

The way I'm reading this situation now is that the House managers have done a good job stitching together a tight scenario and it didn't take long to do it. If it all wraps up this month I doubt that punishing Democrats is going to be a huge priority by the time November rolls around.

Now I wonder if there's a chance the GOP would want to drag things out to keep the whole punish-the-Dems issue alive. But I can't picture them risking calling witnesses, even the supposedly Trump-friendly "firsthand" people. Meanwhile it's got to bug some of them that Trump rides roughshod over any U.S. policy designed to check Russian expansionism. They might not give a fig about dodgy requests to investigate the Bidens, but I'm not so sure it escapes their notice that Trump seems so determined to help Putin.

 

[Delphic Oracle]

But I only have one vote.







I do not think it's the most outlandish thing a president has ever done. I don't think it's a crisis that rocks America to its foundations.



Most importantly, if someone tells me that they don't see it as a scandal, or they see it as a very minor scandal of very little consequence, I don't hate them for it.





I don't think he ought to get away with it. However, by impeaching him, I fear that the Democrats will end up letting him get away with it. Some of you will find that combination of statements puzzling.

Might there be any other identifiable groups more responsible for "letting him get away with it" than the one trying to stop him, albeit in some way that you purport is actually letting him get away with it?

Because on the surface this seems kinda like that "straining at a gnat while swallowing a camel" behavior.

 

[acbytesla]

But I only have one vote.

That's all any of us are supposed to get. But you also have a voice. But the question isn't only to you.

I do not think it's the most outlandish thing a president has ever done. I don't think it's a crisis that rocks America to its foundations.

It probably isn't. But it's close. As for rocking America to its foundations. I'm not sure what that means. That said, I think the failure to do anything about it and the clear obstruction of justice is an extremely dangerous precedent. Failing to check blatant abuses of power of this magnitude only invites future abuses.

I think the impeachment of Clinton was a total farce. That said, what Clinton did was wrong. And Clinton admitted it was wrong and was rightfully censured for it.

Trump OTOH, didn't learn from the Russia collusion debacle and to this day says he did nothing wrong in regards to Ukraine. Calls the impeachment a hoax and even today he threatened Schiff. And do you think the GOP will stand for Trump being censured? Hardly.

I don't think he ought to get away with it. However, by impeaching him, I fear that the Democrats will end up letting him get away with it. Some of you will find that combination of statements puzzling.

The Democrats? You mean the Republicans.

 

[Cabbage]

However, by impeaching him, I fear that the Democrats will end up letting him get away with it. Some of you will find that combination of statements puzzling.

Of course! I know in my own personal life, when something goes wrong I generally get the best results from doing absolutely nothing and pretending as if everything is just A-OK.