Cont: The Trump Presidency: Part 19

[quadraginta]

Trump Tweets

<snip>

Everyone said it couldn’t be done. But for the first time in a generation, there will be direct flights between Serbia and Kosovo. Another win. Thanks to @WHNSC Ambassador Robert O’Brien and Ambassador @RichardGrenell!

<snip>

I certainly never said that.

Any of you guys?

Has anyone ever heard anybody say that?

 

[Belz...]

As the snake?

Nonsense. The snake offered knowledge.

 

[Worm]

I'm reasonably sure Trump could't find Serbia and Kosovo on a map. He might struggle to find the right continent.

 

[ponderingturtle]

I don't think that's very relevant. Statistics are useful for populations, but not for individuals.

Exactly why I refuse to wear a seatbelt! Those misleading statistics about them making crashes safer are total garbage when we look at individuals.

 

[ponderingturtle]

You have a good point. But you are a trained ex-police officer, not the average Joe Blow on the street. You feel empowered...and that is exactly what I think most of those average Joe Blows feel. It makes them feel in control and powerful.

I don't know, does police training actually lower gun violence and accident rates?

 

[Stacyhs]

In 1989, probably not digitally enhanced. But a bit of airbrushing, sure. Because I'm pretty certain that apple was hanging on fishing line. Because Trump can't catch with two hands, let alone one while not looking.

I like it!

Photoshop was invented in 1987, two years before the picture was taken.

 

[Stacyhs]

I don't know, does police training actually lower gun violence and accident rates?

I doubt any studies have been done on it. But it's common sense to me that someone whose gone through police training, which includes live action shooting scenarios, would be better prepared to know when and how to shoot than someone who hasn't. If not, why do they bother training police for shooting situations?

I'd also bet that police are less likely to accidentally shoot themselves in the foot or someone else than someone who just goes down to Walmart and buys a gun.

 

[Andy_Ross]

I doubt any studies have been done on it. But it's common sense to me that someone whose gone through police training, which includes live action shooting scenarios, would be better prepared to know when and how to shoot than someone who hasn't. If not, why do they bother training police for shooting situations?

I'd also bet that police are less likely to accidentally shoot themselves in the foot or someone else than someone who just goes down to Walmart and buys a gun.

I would like to see some evidence for that.

Police handle guns a lot more often than the average gun owner. Lots of opportunity for cock ups.

 

[Armitage72]

I doubt any studies have been done on it. But it's common sense to me that someone whose gone through police training, which includes live action shooting scenarios, would be better prepared to know when and how to shoot than someone who hasn't. If not, why do they bother training police for shooting situations?

I'd also bet that police are less likely to accidentally shoot themselves in the foot or someone else than someone who just goes down to Walmart and buys a gun.

None of the above applies to dancing FBI agents.

FBI agent loses his gun during dance-floor backflip, accidentally shoots bar patron

 

[Stacyhs]

I would like to see some evidence for that.

Police handle guns a lot more often than the average gun owner. Lots of opportunity for cock ups.

So would I. But, as I said, I doubt any such studies have been done comparing police vs the average gun owner. But if common sense doesn't tell you that police with intensive gun handling training and shooting scenario training doesn't make a difference, then I don't know what else to say. As I said, if it doesn't, why would police bother with it?

 

[Andy_Ross]

Trump Tweets

READ THE TRANSCRIPTS!

 

[ponderingturtle]

I doubt any studies have been done on it. But it's common sense to me that someone whose gone through police training, which includes live action shooting scenarios, would be better prepared to know when and how to shoot than someone who hasn't. If not, why do they bother training police for shooting situations?

I'd also bet that police are less likely to accidentally shoot themselves in the foot or someone else than someone who just goes down to Walmart and buys a gun.

Yet there is a lot of videos of police officers giving themselves glock leg.

I think we can just assume all gun owners are more responsible than average, just like all drivers are better than average. Hence statistics reflecting a non existent average in both cases are meaningless as there is no average gun owner or driver.

 

[Mongrel]

Let's see if we can all manufacture some surprise here...
Snopes rated this FALSE. The pens cost $15 each.

Trump is retweeting FAKE NEWS.

But he'd have tried to sell them for 5K so it's obviously true...

 

[ponderingturtle]

So would I. But, as I said, I doubt any such studies have been done comparing police vs the average gun owner. But if common sense doesn't tell you that police with intensive gun handling training and shooting scenario training doesn't make a difference, then I don't know what else to say. As I said, if it doesn't, why would police bother with it?

With out any kind of statistics to back it up how can they have any evidence one way or the other? And most of the training is likely in target practice and how to best turn off the body camera when pulling a gun on an unarmed suspect not gun safety.

Then there is the whole issue that domestic violence is above average in police officer households and so making malicious use of firearms at home more likely.

https://kutv.com/news/local/40-of-police-officer-families-experience-domestic-violence-study-says

 

[The Great Zaganza]

Trump Tweets

READ THE TRANSCRIPTS!

We want to, but Mitch doesn't let them be put into evidence!

 

[Stacyhs]

Yet there is a lot of videos of police officers giving themselves glock leg.

What are we going to do? Start looking to see who can find more videos of non-police vs police accidentally shooting themselves as some kind of evidence?

I think we can just assume all gun owners are more responsible than average, just like all drivers are better than average. Hence statistics reflecting a non existent average in both cases are meaningless as there is no average gun owner or driver.

I still would like to know why you think police undergo intensive gun training including shooting situation scenarios if they don't make a difference.

 

[ponderingturtle]

What are we going to do? Start looking to see who can find more videos of non-police vs police accidentally shooting themselves as some kind of evidence?

It is a kind of evidence. I know statistics are meaningless just like with drivers because all gun owners like all drivers are better and safer than average and statistics only deal with average drivers/gun owners.

I still would like to know why you think police undergo intensive gun training including shooting situation scenarios if they don't make a difference.

It might it might not. Are the police trained better than average gun owners in safety procedures? Does this then reflect better handling procedures and fewer negligent discharges? Does the elevated rate of domestic violence and the correlation of domestic violence with intimate partner murder mean anything to the police?

I think there are a lot more issues than training involved, culture for one, I mean anyone else commits a crime if they point a gun at someone for no reason, but a cop well maybe he gets a talking to. That does not exactly further safe handling practices.

Honestly you haven't even proven that police put any serious time into safety training with firearms to start with. Let alone that this training leads to lower accident rates.

 

[Stacyhs]

It is a kind of evidence. I know statistics are meaningless just like with drivers because all gun owners like all drivers are better and safer than average and statistics only deal with average drivers/gun owners.



It might it might not. Are the police trained better than average gun owners in safety procedures? Does this then reflect better handling procedures and fewer negligent discharges? Does the elevated rate of domestic violence and the correlation of domestic violence with intimate partner murder mean anything to the police?

I think there are a lot more issues than training involved, culture for one, I mean anyone else commits a crime if they point a gun at someone for no reason, but a cop well maybe he gets a talking to. That does not exactly further safe handling practices.

Honestly you haven't even proven that police put any serious time into safety training with firearms to start with. Let alone that this training leads to lower accident rates.

Okay. Frankly, I'm bored with this. As neither of us can prove or disprove our position, it's nothing but a rabbit hole and I have better things to do with my time.

 

[ponderingturtle]

Okay. Frankly, I'm bored with this. As neither of us can prove or disprove our position, it's nothing but a rabbit hole and I have better things to do with my time.

Here are signs of that excellent training you are so sure they have.

https://apnews.com/009ac6cf0a174a58d88d9d01308aedd6

"Accidental shootings by law enforcement have happened in recent years at agencies small and large and at all levels — city, county, state and federal — across the U.S., an Associated Press investigation found. They’ve caused hundreds of injuries to officers, suspects and bystanders, and sometimes they’ve caused deaths.

Experts say it’s because officers don’t get the training they need to handle their guns proficiently, especially in life-and-death situations.

The methods used to train officers with their firearms “create the illusion of learning” but are inadequate for the demands of today’s policing, said Bill Lewinski, executive director of the Illinois-based Force Science Institute, which provides research and training to law enforcement agencies."

 

[a_unique_person]

I certainly never said that.



Any of you guys?



Has anyone ever heard anybody say that?

That would be me. Sorry guys. I won't do it again.