• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Monkey See. Monkey Do. Oops $12 million.

psionl0 said:
I wouldn't go that far - although there are people who would. At least, that's what others have told me in the past.

I learned a long time ago that nobody cares how I feel.
Click to expand...

Actually I do, and I usually enjoy reading your posts. I don't agree with all of them, but that doesn't mean I don't care or don't value them.
 
Distracted1 said:
I think for your example to have merit it would need to be self-evident from the image that the pictured person was not a part of the class you choose for your label.

Perhaps a picture of your target labeled a "dog" or some such.
Click to expand...

Problem here is that the pictured people in the OP are part of the class that have been repeated racially slurred as Monkeys throughout history, so no, my example is apt.
 
PhantomWolf said:
Problem here is that the pictured people in the OP are part of the class that have been repeated racially slurred as Monkeys throughout history, so no, my example is apt.
Click to expand...
No it is not.
Although the term has been used as an insult, it is not possible to conclude from an image that the maligned actually are monkeys. However, it is not possible to discern from an image that a person pictured is clearly not a pedophile.
Your labeling it thus has a potential to create harm that a clearly untrue accusation does not have.

Or do you assert that labeling the boys in question "pedophiles" would not be an act of greater consequence to them than putting "monkey do" above their picture (following the "monkey see" image) ?
 
Last edited:
Giordano said:
When black people are described as monkeys or linked to monkeys I think immediately of the long history of the meme being used in a racist fashion. Decades, hundreds of years of its use in this fashion. It hasn't disappeared by any means (in fact I see it recently expanding once again as politicians have sought to play to racist groups for support). Do you think that the kids and their parents somehow were unaware of it as a racial insult and had to be told about the problem by someone over 60 years old?

Were you unaware of it and were shocked to learn of the racist connection by this thread?
Click to expand...

Fair question. When seeing the thread title, I assumed some kind of business tried to rip off another business model and got slammed with a $12mil suit.

And no one is claiming they are shocked. It is more that it is not a common racial thing. Look at Wikipedia's entry for the expression. No mention of racist usage or connotations. Wiki gone white power too, I suppose?

Giordano said:
In thread after thread, at least according to a few posters, no matter what occurs there is no evidence of it being racism. Apparently the black people involved in these incidents who do believe that racism has taken place are wrong; just over-sensitive and/or incited by others to leap to the wrong conclusion and "play the race card."

Thankfully we white people know better and that most racism has disappeared! Certainly we don't see it...

Having lived through the 1960s I am reminded by a very common response by those in opposition to the civil rights movement at that time, "Its all those outside agitators! We whites and them "racial slurs" got along just fine until those communists, Jews, and Northerns came down and started putting ideas into their heads."
Click to expand...

Well, speaking as one o' them thar Northerns, this tale is solidly in the 'leaping to the wrong conclusion' pile. I mean, come on...monkey see, monkey do? Google the term, and see how many kid programs and yoga studios and everything else under the sun shares this name. But just this one usage is racist (while parents and students of all colors flood the hearing in support of them)?

Here again, it does not reflect on whether racism exists, despite your straw assertion. The argument is that this is a lousy example if someone wishes to show racism on the hoof.
 
Thermal said:
Fair question. When seeing the thread title, I assumed some kind of business tried to rip off another business model and got slammed with a $12mil suit.



And no one is claiming they are shocked. It is more that it is not a common racial thing. Look at Wikipedia's entry for the expression. No mention of racist usage or connotations. Wiki gone white power too, I suppose?







Well, speaking as one o' them thar Northerns, this tale is solidly in the 'leaping to the wrong conclusion' pile. I mean, come on...monkey see, monkey do? Google the term, and see how many kid programs and yoga studios and everything else under the sun shares this name. But just this one usage is racist (while parents and students of all colors flood the hearing in support of them)?



Here again, it does not reflect on whether racism exists, despite your straw assertion. The argument is that this is a lousy example if someone wishes to show racism on the hoof.
Click to expand...
"Google the term"

Try googling black people monkey and learn some facts about it
 
Thermal said:
Fair question. When seeing the thread title, I assumed some kind of business tried to rip off another business model and got slammed with a $12mil suit.

And no one is claiming they are shocked. It is more that it is not a common racial thing. Look at Wikipedia's entry for the expression. No mention of racist usage or connotations. Wiki gone white power too, I suppose?



Well, speaking as one o' them thar Northerns, this tale is solidly in the 'leaping to the wrong conclusion' pile. I mean, come on...monkey see, monkey do? Google the term, and see how many kid programs and yoga studios and everything else under the sun shares this name. But just this one usage is racist (while parents and students of all colors flood the hearing in support of them)?
Here again, it does not reflect on whether racism exists, despite your straw assertion. The argument is that this is a lousy example if someone wishes to show racism on the hoof.
Click to expand...

This bit is amazingly obtuse. An exercise in missing the point, which I will not labour any further.
 
cullennz said:
"Google the term"

Try googling black people monkey and learn some facts about it
Click to expand...

That was going to be my suggestion too.
The problem was not that the general term “monkey see monkey do,” was a racist meme, but using it to label a picture of black children was...

I think this has been explained before in this thread...
 
Giordano said:
That was going to be my suggestion too.
The problem was not that the general term “monkey see monkey do,” was a racist meme, but using it to label a picture of black children was...

I think this has been explained before in this thread...
Click to expand...

You know, this topic pops up every couple of months, and every time, it always has to be explained that comparing black people to monkeys is a common racist trope!
 
Tbf without naming names there is a fair bit of purposefully obtuseness (may have made up a word) that goes on here.
 
cullennz said:
"Google the term"

Try googling black people monkey and learn some facts about it
Click to expand...

Yeah, we know. We all know. But it's not what we are talking about.

Any reference to monkeys does not automatically mean racism. I've heard there are these cats called 'skeptics' who value this jazz called 'context'. The context here is a science teacher who has used this goofy monkey do thing for like a decade with kids of different races. At the hearing, the place overflowed with support for him, from people of all colors. That says to me that this example is not racist. It was innocent, if stupid, as some of these turn out to be.

But what do we do with a day care called 'Monkey Do'? Should we recommend to the owners not to accept black students, lest they be pictured under the school's signage, and the owner accused of being a hateful racist?

Should the owner of Monkey Do Yoga refuse to sell a t-shirt to a black member? Think about it; the reasoning is going off the rails.
 
Yes the "Oh please remind me again that this is bad, as if we've never had this discussion before" thing we have to do every time this topic comes up.
 
Last edited:
I'd ask what exactly about calling black people monkeys is so important to people that it has to be defended, but I already know I'd just get a bunch of unrelated rants about PC snowflakes and everyone being offended all the time which aren't answers to that question.
 
Thermal said:
Yeah, we know. We all know. But it's not what we are talking about.



Any reference to monkeys does not automatically mean racism. I've heard there are these cats called 'skeptics' who value this jazz called 'context'. The context here is a science teacher who has used this goofy monkey do thing for like a decade with kids of different races. At the hearing, the place overflowed with support for him, from people of all colors. That says to me that this example is not racist. It was innocent, if stupid, as some of these turn out to be.



But what do we do with a day care called 'Monkey Do'? Should we recommend to the owners not to accept black students, lest they be pictured under the school's signage, and the owner accused of being a hateful racist?



Should the owner of Monkey Do Yoga refuse to sell a t-shirt to a black member? Think about it; the reasoning is going off the rails.
Click to expand...
We are talking about this case, not some business people can chose to go to or not.

Alright then. Let's say it was a completely innocent mistake.

Do you want people that thick teaching your kids?
 
cullennz said:
We are talking about this case, not some business people can chose to go to or not.

Alright then. Let's say it was a completely innocent mistake.

Do you want people that thick teaching your kids?
Click to expand...

Based on the reported outpouring of support, yeah, I think he sounds like a teacher that touched a lot of lives.
 
psionl0 said:
I say it's a malicious attempt to defame me with false information and cause me harm.
Click to expand...

Quashing freedom of speech then, or do you also accept that Blacks put in a photo that refers to them as Monkeys might also consider that "a malicious attempt to defame with false information and cause harm."
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom