Cont: The Trump Presidency: Part 19

[TurkeysGhost]

From the analysis in the Guardian:

Man this is grim. Trump is ****-posting our way into a shooting war with Iran. Imagine being some troop who's about to step on an IED in 6 months over this dumb ****.

 

[The Great Zaganza]

Trump Tweeted

Iran never won a war, but never lost a negotiation!

He thinks he's clever but he's not.

 

[Ziggurat]

This, on the other hand - what would it take for you not to dismiss it without any serious evaluation of the mountain of evidence pointing to Trump trying to dance to Putin's desire?

Trump is expanding US oil and gas production. That, more than anything else he could do, is weakening Putin. That alone proves he’s not Putin’s puppet. There’s a reason Putin backs environmentalists in the US. Had Trump not been doing that, the other stuff you refer to might be relevant. But he is, so it isn’t.

 

[Fast Eddie B]

There is an old joke in different businesses.
How do you make a million dollars, start with two million dollars.

Certainly not unique to aviation, but along those lines...

“How do you make a small fortune in aviation? First, start with a large fortune...”

 

[Fast Eddie B]

Like when he said the moon was part of Mars.

Honestly, given the Principle of Charity, I understood what he meant in that specific instance.

 

[Ladewig]

Eric Trump Tweeted (before the attack)

Eric Trump
@erictrump
Bout to open a big ol' can of whoop ass
#DonMessWithTheBest
#USAUSAUSA twitter.com/jackposobiec/s...


(this tweet was removed and replaced with


Great job ⁦@realDonaldTrump!
Trump just took out the world's biggest bad guy Qasem Soleimani

Is that a typo on your part or is Eric trying to encourage his father to mess with the best?

 

[shemp]

I don't fancy a war with a lunatic in charge.

 

[JoeMorgue]

I don't fancy a war with a lunatic in charge.

We joked about it with Bush and Reagan in regards to going all cowboy and "pushing the button" but honestly it feels a lot less like a joke with Trump.

 

[Segnosaur]

Trump Tweeted



A picture of an American flag.

Was he fondling it at the time?

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[The Greater Fool]

Was he fondling it at the time?

There was a lone tear about to fall.

 

[JoeMorgue]

I don't fancy a war with a lunatic in charge.

Especially since for all the reasonable criticisms that ranges from "obvious" to "well at least that's a fair question to put on the table" in regards to all the conflicts that Obama, Bush, Clinton, etc started in recent modern history, all of them were at least smart enough to once they decided there was going to be a conflict to let actual military leaders actually run them.

Trump? He'd be doing that "Micromanage while at the same time remaining totally disinterested in it" thing because he has to be "The bestest most smartests who knows what to do better than anyone about everything" but is also stupid and lazy to an incredible degree.

 

[Segnosaur]

Trump is expanding US oil and gas production. That, more than anything else he could do, is weakening Putin. That alone proves he’s not Putin’s puppet. There’s a reason Putin backs environmentalists in the US. Had Trump not been doing that, the other stuff you refer to might be relevant. But he is, so it isn’t.

No, actually the best thing Trump could have done to weaken Putin/Russia is encourage alternative energy sources and conservation so that the demand for oil will drop (along with prices). Oil is a finite resource and largely fungible and any extra production will eventually be met by increasing demand (keeping prices stable and giving money to Russia as well as Saudi Arabia, Iran, and other countries that are often hostile to US interests).

As for Putin backing environmentalists in the US... First I heard of it. Certainly haven't heard of any big Russia "troll farms" to promote green issues. Whatever support he does give is probably just meant to cause dissent/division in the US.

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[Ziggurat]

No, actually the best thing Trump could have done to weaken Putin/Russia is encourage alternative energy sources and conservation so that the demand for oil will drop (along with prices).

Oh, my dear, sweet, naive boy. Even assuming that works, the timescale is far too long.

Oil is a finite resource and largely fungible

The fungibility is exactly why US domestic production hurts Putin.

As for Putin backing environmentalists in the US... First I heard of it.

That doesn't surprise me. The story hasn't gotten nearly as much press as it should, but it's out there. For example:
https://www.newsweek.com/putin-funding-green-groups-discredit-natural-gas-fracking-635052

Certainly haven't heard of any big Russia "troll farms" to promote green issues.

They don't need to. There's an infrastructure already in place here to advance their cause that they can piggy back off of.

Whatever support he does give is probably just meant to cause dissent/division in the US.

Except unlike other political stuff (including Trump vs. Hillary), they aren't playing both sides of that issue. They're only playing one side.

 

[Craig4]

Trump is expanding US oil and gas production. That, more than anything else he could do, is weakening Putin. That alone proves he’s not Putin’s puppet. There’s a reason Putin backs environmentalists in the US. Had Trump not been doing that, the other stuff you refer to might be relevant. But he is, so it isn’t.

I think you're forgetting that part where Trump and his Trumptrash colluded with Russians and Wikileaks against America and Americans to influence the election in Trump's favor. It's not our oil production that's weakening Putin, it's the sanctions that he wants lifted. Fortunately, there are still enough Americans in Congress to prevent the Trump supporters from weakening the sanctions regime.

 

[Minoosh]

Explaining

Maybe let Iran bomb a top US general now? After all, clearly this is a normal way to deal with international politics?

I think I know where you are coming from though I might be wrong. In my head, I've been keeping score for 40 years. In the eternal game of tit-for-tat I don't fault Iranians for trash-talking the U.S. The U.S. has done PLENTY to keep the adversarial relationship alive. At any given point, IMO, the Iranians have had a case for calling it all even. Considering that the U.S. intervened in THEIR elections quite substantially almost 70 years ago.

So, I have no idea how this will shake out. But I'm pretty sure the Islamic Republic of Iran is taking Trump more seriously than it did Jimmy Carter or even Barack Obama. Whether this is a good thing or not, I don't have enough facts to judge. I've no doubt some factions in Iran are pushing for exactly what your post proposes. But it's significant that Iran even has factions. It is a dictatorship, but light years away from the control exerted by Kim Jong-un or even President Xi of China. It wants engagement with the rest of the world, enough to *maybe* set aside the need for revenge and to start playing it straight vs. continually trolling the United States. Even if the U.S. deserves it.

In this one area of my life, I'm an optimist. Iran and the U.S. could have a bang-up strategic alliance if they can just back off from the Axis-of-Evil/Great Satan ******** that has been going on for 40 years. The 2 countries have been quiet allies in several recent conflicts. It's more complicated than it looks. That's my thumbnail impression.

When Iran topics come up on this forum I always feel compelled to jump in. But I have no idea what, in practice, the 2 countries should do to break out of a decades-long stalemate which, many people would agree, has outlived its usefulness.

 

[Ladewig]

Honestly, given the Principle of Charity, I understood what he meant in that specific instance.

Agreed.

 

[Aridas]

Trump is expanding US oil and gas production. That, more than anything else he could do, is weakening Putin. That alone proves he’s not Putin’s puppet. There’s a reason Putin backs environmentalists in the US. Had Trump not been doing that, the other stuff you refer to might be relevant. But he is, so it isn’t.

I see. You're falling into a really, really obvious hole here, then, where you're dismissing the mountain of evidence for a poorly thought through attempt at cherry-picking one thing and then both magnifying it far out of reason and adding distinctly untrustworthy spin and assumptions. Motivated logic in action.

 

[Trebuchet]

I don't fancy a war with a lunatic in charge.

Lunatics on both sides. John Bolton is presumably ecstatic.

 

[Lurch]

Trump is expanding US oil and gas production. That, more than anything else he could do, is weakening Putin. That alone proves he’s not Putin’s puppet. There’s a reason Putin backs environmentalists in the US. Had Trump not been doing that, the other stuff you refer to might be relevant. But he is, so it isn’t.

The oil and gas companies are expanding US production. The gov't (Trumpco currently) are merely assenting.

Whaddya want? That Trump prove his distance from Putin by curtailing his own nation's energy sector?!?

And as to Putin backing US environmentalists... He also publicly stated his Backing of Trump. And we know the swerpunkt of Putin's strategy is destabilization of the US in any event. Trump for him is beyond wish fulfillment.

This is not the support for Dear Leader you might have us fall for.

 

[Lurch]

Honestly, given the Principle of Charity, I understood what he meant in that specific instance.

And I. It does induce a bit of a cringe when folk bring this up as evidence of idiocy. It was just the poor grammar of a disorganized mind. Much else points to the man's idiocy; this one is not the best to harp on.