Cont: House Impeachment Inquiry - part 2

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TellyKNeasuss said:
3. Hunter Biden's position with Burisma was heavily covered in the news media at the time, so it wasn't something that the Trump Administration just uncovered this summer. If there was a legitimate belief that Hunter and/or Joe did something illegal, the US would have:
(a) started its own investigation rather than asking Ukraine to start one;
(b) started it 2 years ago.

4. In the US, presidents don't normally get personally involved in criminal investigations, especially ones with political overtones.

5. In the US, presidents don't assign their PERSONAL attorneys to coordinate criminal investigations.

And finally,
6. The thought that a man who has engaged in numerous private business deals with foreign governments while serving as president (including getting dozens of trademarks from our biggest economic rival) and who recently got socked with a $2 million fine for misappropriating money from a charitable foundation is interested in rooting out corruption is laughable.
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For what it's worth, most of my posts here have been critical of impeachment, but that's primarily because I don't think the case is strong enough, and unless something improves, I think it's a political plus for their side.

Points 4 and 5 above, though, may bear fruit. What's going on with Giuliani as Trump's lawyer but meeting with foreign governments conducting some sort of foreign policy on the side is, at the least, highly irregular. There might be something there to grab onto and make stick. I guess we'll see.
 
Meadmaker said:
For what it's worth, most of my posts here have been critical of impeachment, but that's primarily because I don't think the case is strong enough, and unless something improves, I think it's a political plus for their side.
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There's the risk that this impeachment will be a political negative for the Democrats, but there's also the risk that if they didn't push forward with impeachment then Trump would continue to try to rope foreign governments into doing things that would help his campaign (which he appears to still be doing).
 
TellyKNeasuss said:
There's the risk that this impeachment will be a political negative for the Democrats, but there's also the risk that if they didn't push forward with impeachment then Trump would continue to try to rope foreign governments into doing things that would help his campaign (which he appears to still be doing).
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The second part isn't a risk, but a fact. As you say, it's happening.

As for the case not being strong enough (the part you quoted from another poster), that's simply insane. The case is open and shut.
 
Trump Tweets

I got Impeached last might without one Republican vote being cast with the Do Nothing Dems on their continuation of the greatest Witch Hunt in American history. Now the Do Nothing Party want to Do Nothing with the Articles & not deliver them to the Senate, but it’s Senate’s call!

“The Senate shall set the time and place of the trial.” If the Do Nothing Democrats decide, in their great wisdom, not to show up, they would lose by Default!

PRESIDENTIAL HARASSMENT!

100% Republican Vote. That’s what people are talking about. The Republicans are united like never before!
 
uke2se said:
As for the case not being strong enough (the part you quoted from another poster), that's simply insane. The case is open and shut.
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If this was a jury trial, I would agree that it would be a slam dunk. But it isn't. Trump will almost certainly be acquitted, and that could influence some people who are on the fence and who prefer to follow rather than make their own evaluations.
 
Here comes the last gasps of resistance democrat nonsense. Not sure what these people are going to do once the McConnell Senate acquits on a party line vote.

This isn't to say that I oppose impeachment. It's absolutely the right thing to do and the duty of every member of Congress to remove this corrupt president.

But these people out there singing "impeachmas" carols just make me wonder what they actually think is going to happen. There is 0% chance that Trump will be removed by the current Senate.
 
SuburbanTurkey said:
Here comes the last gasps of resistance democrat nonsense. Not sure what these people are going to do once the McConnell Senate acquits on a party line vote.

This isn't to say that I oppose impeachment. It's absolutely the right thing to do and the duty of every member of Congress to remove this corrupt president.

But these people out there singing "impeachmas" carols just make me wonder what they actually think is going to happen. There is 0% chance that Trump will be removed by the current Senate.
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Following the correct procedures has value, even in the face of total obstruction and disregard for truth. It's about winning the war rather than the battle.
 
Beelzebuddy said:
Merry Impeachmas, every one!
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That's a meme that's trending on Twitter at the moment.

SuburbanTurkey said:
...
But these people out there singing "impeachmas" carols just make me wonder what they actually think is going to happen. There is 0% chance that Trump will be removed by the current Senate.
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I'm quite OK with the narrative being "IMPEACHED" for quite a while. It should be the headline of every single newspaper and web site for days. Of course, FoxNews doesn't, even this morning after.
 
Squeegee Beckenheim said:
I think delaying sending the Articles to the Senate would be a bad PR move. It feeds in to the narrative that the whole thing is a sham designed to attack the president because Democrats don't like the result.
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STRONGLY disagree.

If it went quickly to the Senate and Trump was acquitted in a day or so, that would feed into the narrative of a weak case because “there wasn’t even a crime” and that they rightfully dismissed the case out of hand. A narrative already broadcast by numerous congressmen yesterday and echoed by McConnell and Graham on the Senate side.

What’s the rush? I say let it simmer - they’re going to try to spin it to their advantage regardless.
 
I "enjoy" laughing at this, but I think it says a lot about the state of affairs in the US. Religious nuts are in full ownership of the rank and file GOP. From yesterday's proceedings:

Rep Loudermilk said:
Pontius Pilate afforded more rights to Jesus than Democrats afforded this president in this process
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Fast Eddie B said:
STRONGLY disagree.

If it went quickly to the Senate and Trump was acquitted in a day or so, that would feed into the narrative of a weak case because “there wasn’t even a crime” and that they rightfully dismissed the case out of hand. A narrative already broadcast by numerous congressmen yesterday and echoed by McConnell and Graham on the Senate side.

What’s the rush? I say let it simmer - they’re going to try to spin it to their advantage regardless.
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It kind of seems like the narrative has switched from:

"Even though the Senate will never convict, we have to proceed with impeachment because it's the right thing to do."

To:

"Since the Senate won't convict, we shouldn't proceed with impeachment because reasons."
 
I didn't know Pelosi had the option not to send the Articles - and I don't approve of any delay that isn't itself sanctioned by a House vote.
 
McConnell is currently blathering that the House rush, rush, rushed through the Impeachment proceedings. When he wants to rush, rush, rush through the trial portion himself. ******* hypocrite.
 
SuburbanTurkey said:
Here comes the last gasps of resistance democrat nonsense. Not sure what these people are going to do once the McConnell Senate acquits on a party line vote.
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I thought that would be obvious: Pivot from It's the Principle of the Thing to Extract as Much Political Advantage as Possible from the Thing.

I kind of assumed that was the plan all along, and that it's informed every move the House Democrats have made so far.

All the people insisting that the House Dems are doing it out of principle seem really weird to me. Have they not been paying attention to American politics at all?
 
TragicMonkey said:
It doesn't matter how it looks. The days of image mattering are over, the sides have been chosen, the villains are proudly wearing black uniforms with skull insignia on everything. They don't care if you point out their hypocrisy, they don't care if you expose their evil. They're now at the point of shooting people in broad daylight on Fifth Avenue and laughing about it because nobody can stop them.
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To balance my last post a little:

Hopefully, though, it does matter enough to the "good guys" in the US. As others have pointed out, Trump's approval rating has been stuck at 40-43% since May 2018, for better and worse. The trumpkins are stuck in their information quarantene bubble and probably can't be swayed, but at the same time, 40-43% isn't enough to win an election if the other side mobilises sufficiently strongly, and my hope is that the impeachment will be another warning sign to the right people. Remember, Trump won in 2016 not because people wanted him, but because too many of the people who didn't want him didn't get off their butts to vote, probably in part because they were so confident he would lose.
 
alfaniner said:
I'm quite OK with the narrative being "IMPEACHED" for quite a while. It should be the headline of every single newspaper and web site for days. Of course, FoxNews doesn't, even this morning after.
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Sure. It's something I suppose. And it will make it even more obvious that Republicans are straight up corrupt when they hand wave it away in the Senate.

All this talk about Pelosi outmaneuvering McConnell in the Senate, delaying the trial, whatever. It isn't going to work. The Senate trial is going to go exactly the way Trump and the Republicans want it. Unclear if that means they'll do some BS short and sweet acquittal, or drag it out for their own purposes.

The impeachment headline does seem to have Trump pretty wound up, which is nice. Maybe he'll have another unscheduled "physical" with his doctor.

Have to agree with prestige here. I can't see any benefit for Pelosi delaying the process. It's going to the Senate eventually and McConnell is going to flush it. Can't see how Pelosi can change that. Just let the country see the Republicans pull a rat-**** and let's be on with it.
 
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theprestige said:
It kind of seems like the narrative has switched from:

"Even though the Senate will never convict, we have to proceed with impeachment because it's the right thing to do."

To:

"Since the Senate won't convict, we shouldn't proceed with impeachment because reasons."
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They proceeded with impeachment. Trump is impeached.
 
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