Cont: House Impeachment Inquiry - part 2

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uke2se said:
You ought to be. You have been given every reason, after all. Anger affects change.
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Anger alone doesn't effect change. Action must be taken. 1) I'm seeing anger here but no action, and 2) action can also be taken without the anger, which is mentally healthier.
 
TragicMonkey said:
Anger alone doesn't effect change. Action must be taken. 1) I'm seeing anger here but no action, and 2) action can also be taken without the anger, which is mentally healthier.
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You're in a place of pure discussion and taking people to task for not acting in a place where they literally can't.

It's like you're rejecting the base concept of discourse.
 
JoeMorgue said:
You're in a place of pure discussion and taking people to task for not acting in a place where they literally can't.

It's like you're rejecting the base concept of discourse.
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I'm just pointing out that you're not actually in a position to criticize my attitude towards the state of things when you yourself are doing nothing to change things. It's like you're a Protestant theologian so all that's necessary is to think the right thoughts without actually doing anything.
 
Grizzly Bear said:
Having control over the process in the house of representatives of the impeachment inquiry and presenting witnesses that are largely hearsay and havent help their case in persuading public opinion aside from those that already agreed with impeachment to begin with...
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You are aware that the reason there haven't been many first-hand witnesses called is because Trump has refused to let them testify, right? That just yesterday McConnel called the Democrats' request to call first-hand witnesses "strange"?

It's truly astounding that this can be spun as a failure of the Democrats - and then people actually believe it.
 
Mitch calling the call for first-hand witnesses to the phone call a "fishing expedition" is a ludicrous attempt to prevent officials to end up in a position where they will have to tell the truth.
Truth is the last thing McConnell wants to see in the Senate.
 
The Great Zaganza said:
Mitch calling the call for first-hand witnesses to the phone call a "fishing expedition" is a ludicrous attempt to prevent officials to end up in a position where they will have to tell the truth.
Truth is the last thing McConnell wants to see in the Senate.
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I wonder if he's trying to play two games at once here: openly assist Trump to keep on his good side, while making Trump look guilty by rigging the trial so it looks like the Republicans believe Trump couldn't win in a fair fight. Turtle might be trying to get Trump removed while appearing to be exerting all his efforts to help him.
 
JoeMorgue said:
No offense but that does sort of just rather crudely dismiss the fact that... Trump is actually doing harm to people in an actual legit way that invites something beyond a shrug and a "Well... whatta gonna do?"

The whole straw nihilist "Nothing really matters" is a big factor in how we got Trump and the big defense from many of his defenders, I don't think it's a good plan to use to beat him.

We should care about what's going on, not adopt a "Lookit me care the least about it" attitude.
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And be ready to do something about it when the opportunity presents itself. Or, make your own opportunity. Even if you're only one person (Don't fall for the "I'm only one person" fallacy).
 
TragicMonkey said:
I wonder if he's trying to play two games at once here: openly assist Trump to keep on his good side, while making Trump look guilty by rigging the trial so it looks like the Republicans believe Trump couldn't win in a fair fight. Turtle might be trying to get Trump removed while appearing to be exerting all his efforts to help him.
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Trump is a... let us be charitable here and call it a very, very hard to account for variable so trying to make any declarative prediction beyond the level of "might" is hard, but part of me still wants to think we're going to see some kind of manifestation of some of the old school Republicans pushing back against Trump in some way.
 
TragicMonkey said:
I wonder if he's trying to play two games at once here: openly assist Trump to keep on his good side, while making Trump look guilty by rigging the trial so it looks like the Republicans believe Trump couldn't win in a fair fight. Turtle might be trying to get Trump removed while appearing to be exerting all his efforts to help him.
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McConnell only wants to minimize the the chance of disaster that an kind of relevant testimony could bring.
When it comes to Trump, there are no upsides, only bigger and smaller downsides.
 
JoeMorgue said:
Trump is a... let us be charitable here and call it a very, very hard to account for variable so trying to make any declarative prediction beyond the level of "might" is hard, but part of me still wants to think we're going to see some kind of manifestation of some of the old school Republicans pushing back against Trump in some way.
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I think that's unlikely. If there were any decent old style Republicans left they'd have torpedoed Trump the moment he got cozy with Russia. The Bush Senior cohort is dead or retired. They'd have stopped that nonsense before the primaries last time.
 
I see that Democratic Senators are suggesting that Pelosi withhold sending the articles of impeachment to the Senate until the GOP agrees to hold a fair trial. She can withhold them indefinitely.
 
acbytesla said:
I see that Democratic Senators are suggesting that Pelosi withhold sending the articles of impeachment to the Senate until the GOP agrees to hold a fair trial. She can withhold them indefinitely.
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Nobody wins in the scenario, cathartic though it might be.
 
theprestige said:
Seems like it would be the opposite of cathartic. Instead of advancing towards some kind of closure, it defers closure indefinitely.
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Perhaps the delay would exacerbate Trump's growing madness and provoke further and more obvious outbursts. Eventually he'd cross the line beyond salvageable and they'd have to remove him anyway.
 
JoeMorgue said:
The whole straw nihilist "Nothing really matters" is a big factor in how we got Trump and the big defense from many of his defenders, I don't think it's a good plan to use to beat him.
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A while back, you were doing one of your regular "the Democrats aren't accomplishing anything against Trump" rants and I asked you what people who opposed Trump should be doing differently. Your answer was that you didn't know and it wasn't your responsibility to know.

So, given that you've explicitly said that you don't think having a plan to beat Trump is your concern, it seems a little weird to be criticising somebody else for not having a good plan to beat Trump.
 
Fast Eddie B said:
I heard a female representative clearly say that Trump did not ask Zelinsky to investigate the Bidens. When presented with the actual quote from the transcript, she said “He did not say that”, or words to that effect. Similar to Trump asserting that he never said that Mexico would pay for the wall.

It’s stunning, but it happens.
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I stand corrected.


That's just weird.
 
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