IG Horowitz report thread.

[Skeptic Ginger]

Fusion GPS co-founder Glenn Simpson discussed their investigation into President Trump and the creation of the Steele dossier.

This was another excellent interview discussing the Horowitz report, the Carter Page, the Steele dossier, all the Russian and Trumpian players. This was an important interview given Barr and Trump are still trying to quash the Mueller report. They are completely distorting the Horowitz finding. There were so many important things revealed in this interview. It's well worth the hour.

Excuse the caps, CSPAN text is always in caps.

THE BODY OF EVIDENCE THAT IS EMERGED, LEAVES A LITTLE QUESTION ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED. THERE WAS AN EFFORT TO ELECT TRUMP PRESIDENT AND HE INSTIGATED AND ENCOURAGED IT. WHETHER THERE'S ENOUGH EVIDENCE TO CHARGE YOU CAN'T ARGUE THERE WAS 140 CONTACTS BETWEEN TRUMP PEOPLE OR QUESTIONS DURING THE CAMPAIGN. TRUMP WAS DOING BUSINESS, TRYING TO DO BUSINESS SECRETLY DURING THE CAMPAIGN. SUE TO MY MIND, THIS WAS REALLY CLEAR. I GET THE FACT THAT OTHER PEOPLE DON'T SEE THAT BECAUSE THERE'S BEEN THIS DELIBERATE EFFORT TO OBSCURE THAT. THE HIGHEST LEVEL OF OUR GOVERNMENT TRUMP AND ATTORNEY GENERAL FOR THE BARR HAS SUCCEEDED TO SOME EXTENT INTO CONFUSING ABOUT THE FACTS.

CAN YOU DRAW A STRAIGHT LINE OR A CROOKED BIND BETWEEN YOUR AUGUST 2015 E-MAIL TO YOUR REPUBLICAN FRIEND OF MULLER REPORT?

IT'S MY LIFE SO FOR ME, THE ORIGINAL STATELINE IS HANDLING. BUT I THINK IN GENERAL, THIS IS THE CULMINATION THAT I HAVE BEEN WORRIED ABOUT AND INTERESTED IN FOR VERY LONG TIME IN TERMS OF THE INCREASING DESTABILIZATION OF THE LEFT BY THIS WAVE OF CRIMINALITY COMING OUT OF THE EAST. THE FACT THAT IT HAS SEEPED INTO OUR POLITICS, INFECTED OUR POLITICS

Compare that interview to the National Review's version: The Damning Inspector General’s Report

 

[Brainster]

Wow, way to ignore that the Steele dossier was a complete and utter fabrication that should never have been relied upon by anybody.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Wow, way to ignore that the Steele dossier was a complete and utter fabrication that should never have been relied upon by anybody.

Really? We need to clear that lie up first before we can discuss the bigger issues?

 

[Minoosh]

Really? We need to clear that lie up first before we can discuss the bigger issues?

The National Review piece is virtually unreadable. That person is trying so hard to belittle just about everyone that I'm having a hard time figuring out what he's trying to say.

The CSPAN interview might be better, but from what you've posted, I find it just as hard to follow. The errors in transcripts bother me inordinately, so that might be part of it.

From just a cursory view, both seem to be trying too hard to tell me what to think, and both have heavy built-in bias.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

The National Review piece is virtually unreadable. That person is trying so hard to belittle just about everyone that I'm having a hard time figuring out what he's trying to say.

The CSPAN interview might be better, but from what you've posted, I find it just as hard to follow. The errors in transcripts bother me inordinately, so that might be part of it.

From just a cursory view, both seem to be trying too hard to tell me what to think, and both have heavy built-in bias.

It's an hour and I realize that's not something many people want to watch. I plan to post more quotes from it but I don't have time tonight.

 

[Trebuchet]

Near as I can tell from the Republicans, the IG report is:
A) A complete and utter vindication of Trump, along with condemnation of Hillary and Comey who should be locked up; and
B) You shouldn't believe a word of it since (((Horowitz))) was appointed by Obama.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Near as I can tell from the Republicans, the IG report is:
A) A complete and utter vindication of Trump, along with condemnation of Hillary and Comey who should be locked up; and
B) You shouldn't believe a word of it since (((Horowitz))) was appointed by Obama.

I think that's close.

 

[Brainster]

Near as I can tell from the Republicans, the IG report is:
A) A complete and utter vindication of Trump, along with condemnation of Hillary and Comey who should be locked up; and
B) You shouldn't believe a word of it since (((Horowitz))) was appointed by Obama.

Let's leave Trump out of it for now (although of course the report does throw cold water on the golden showers allegation). What about Carter Page? Is anybody outraged that an American citizen's communications were monitored by the FBI on the basis that he had had contacts with Russian intelligence sources, even though the FBI knew that he had disclosed those contacts to the CIA and been approved as an "operational contact" by the CIA.

The specifics cited by the IG Report are even more damning. Specifically, “based upon the information known to the FBI in October 2016, the first application contained [] seven significant inaccuracies and omissions.” Among those “significant inaccuracies and omissions”: the FBI concealed that Page had been working with the CIA in connection with his dealings with Russia and had notified CIA case managers of at least some of those contacts after he was “approved as an ‘operational contact'” with Russia; the FBI lied about both the timing and substance of Page’s relationship with the CIA; vastly overstated the value and corroboration of Steele’s prior work for the U.S. Government to make him appear more credible than he was; and concealed from the court serious reasons to doubt the reliability of Steele’s key source.

Moreover, the FBI’s heavy reliance on the Steele Dossier to obtain the FISA warrant – a fact that many leading national security reporters spent two years denying occurred – was particularly concerning because, as the IG Report put it, “we found that the FBI did not have information corroborating the specific allegations against Carter Page in Steele’s reporting when it relied upon his reports in the first FISA application or subsequent renewal applications.”

To spy on a U.S. citizen in the middle of an election, one who had just been working with one of the two major presidential campaigns, the FBI touted a gossipy, unverified, unreliable rag that it had no reason to believe and every reason to distrust, but it hid all of that from the FISA court, which it knew needed to believe that the Steele Dossier was something it was not if it were to give the FBI the spying authorization it wanted.

Really, that article by Glenn Greenwald should be read by everyone. BTW, I agree that the National Review article included in the OP is over the top.

Did anybody see Comey's interview with Chris Wallace (not a Trump fan) today?

In response, Wallace asked pointedly, "Would you agree the FISA [Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act] court was also given false information by the FBI?"

Comey conceded that this was the case.

It was a methodical evisceration of the fired FBI chief, who attempted to downplay his own mistakes and contextualize previous statements he made that no longer hold up in the wake of Inspector General Michael Horowitz's report. Horowitz chronicled the FBI's appalling failures during its handling of the Russia probe, including 17 incidents of "serious performance failures." Wallace raised three key issues with Comey, who tried and failed to explain them away.

Key bit:

First, Wallace pointed out that Comey had previously described the Steele dossier—a key piece of evidence used by the FBI to secure a FISA warrant for Trump campaign advisor Carter Page—as "part of a broader mosaic of facts" against Page. According to the Horowitz report, this was spin on the part of Comey: In fact, the Steele dossier was the fundamental component of the warrant.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Let's leave Trump out of it for now (although of course the report does throw cold water on the golden showers allegation). What about Carter Page? Is anybody outraged that an American citizen's communications were monitored by the FBI on the basis that he had had contacts with Russian intelligence sources, even though the FBI knew that he had disclosed those contacts to the CIA and been approved as an "operational contact" by the CIA....

I may look at the rest of that later but this needs addressing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carter_Page

Page was the subject of a Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) warrant in2014, at least two years earlier than was indicated in the stories concerning his role in the 2016 presidential campaign of Donald Trump,[28][29] 2017 news accounts about the warrant indicated it was granted because of Page's ties to Buryakov, Podobnyy, and the third Russian who attempted to recruit him, Igor Sporyshev.[28...

Trump announced Page as a foreign policy adviser in his campaign on March 21, 2016.[30] On September 23, 2016, Yahoo News reported U.S. intelligence officials investigated alleged contacts between Page and Russian officials subject to U.S. sanctions, including Igor Sechin, the president of state-run Russian oil conglomerate Rosneft.[4] Page promptly left the Trump campaign.[1][31] Upon his departure, Trump campaign communications director Jason Miller said of Page, "He’s never been a part of our campaign. Period."[32]

Shortly after Page left the Trump campaign, the Federal Bureau of Investigation obtained another warrant from the United States Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court (FISC) in October 2016 to surveil Page's communications and read his saved emails.[33][34] To issue the warrant, a federal judge concluded there was probable cause to believe that Page was a foreign agent knowingly engaging in clandestine intelligence for the Russian government.[35] The initial 90-day warrant was subsequently renewed three times.[36]...

The idea this was some innocent citizen targeted by the FBI because he joined the Trump campaign is typical Trumper talking point BS,

 

[Brainster]

I may look at the rest of that later but this needs addressing.

The idea this was some innocent citizen targeted by the FBI because he joined the Trump campaign is typical Trumper talking point BS,

Cite?

 

[Ziggurat]

I may look at the rest of that later but this needs addressing.

The idea this was some innocent citizen targeted by the FBI because he joined the Trump campaign is typical Trumper talking point BS,

You're right, he wasn't just some citizen. He was a CIA contact. The FBI lied to the FISA courts by claiming he wasn't, in order to make his contacts with Russians more suspicious than they actually were. He was never a Russian asset, and the FBI knew it.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Cite?

Sorry, an oversight: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carter_Page

Wiki but well sourced. A search resulted in a page of recent stuff to wade through.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

You're right, he wasn't just some citizen. He was a CIA contact. The FBI lied to the FISA courts by claiming he wasn't, in order to make his contacts with Russians more suspicious than they actually were. He was never a Russian asset, and the FBI knew it.

CIA contact? I didn't see anything about that anywhere. I think you may have gotten that from alt-right propaganda cites.

I'm willing to look at any valid sources you have, though I don't see one bit of evidence the FBI was targeting the Trump campaign except for the fact they were indeed involved in the Russian interference in the 2016 election.

 

[Ziggurat]

CIA contact? I didn't see anything about that anywhere. I think you may have gotten that from alt-right propaganda cites.

I'm willing to look at any valid sources you have, though I don't see one bit of evidence the FBI was targeting the Trump campaign except for the fact they were indeed involved in the Russian interference in the 2016 election.

The IG report doesn’t specify that it was the CIA, just another government agency. I think page himself might have said it was the CIA. But the FBI lied to the FISA court about him being a contact, that’s directly from the IG report.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

The IG report doesn’t specify that it was the CIA, just another government agency. I think page himself might have said it was the CIA. But the FBI lied to the FISA court about him being a contact, that’s directly from the IG report.

You're going to have to quote from the AG report if you want to discuss it.

 

[a_unique_person]

Wow, way to ignore that the Steele dossier was a complete and utter fabrication that should never have been relied upon by anybody.

It wasn't.

 

[Brainster]

You're going to have to quote from the AG report if you want to discuss it.

The info on his association with the CIA was in my post that you quoted, and that you then responded to by quoting Wikipedia.

 

[Ziggurat]

It wasn't.

The IG report makes it clear that it was relied upon to issue warrants.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

Welcome to the Twilight Zone, where liberals insist that the feds are all saints and conservatives are screaming from the rooftops about the sanctity of the 4th Amendment.

 

[Ziggurat]

You're going to have to quote from the AG report if you want to discuss it.

https://www.justice.gov/storage/120919-examination.pdf

From page 159-160

As described later in Chapters Seven and Eight, none of the three renewal applications described Page's prior historical contacts and relationship with the other U.S. government agency, even after the FBI received additional information from the other agency in June 2017. In April and May 2017, following news reports that the FBI had obtained a FISA targeting Carter Page, Page gave interviews to news outlets denying that he had collected intelligence for the Russian government and asserting instead that he had previously shared information that he had learned with the U.S. intelligence community. In mid-June 2017, in response to concerns expressed by members of the Crossfire Hurricane team, the OGC Attorney contacted the other U.S. government agency by email to seek clarification about Page's past status with that agency. The other U.S. government agency responded by email to the FBI OGC attorney by directing the attorney to memoranda previously sent to the FBI by the other U.S. government agency that informed the FBI that Page did previously have a relationship with that other agency and that the last contact occurred in July 2011. The email also stated, using the other agency's terminology, that Page had a relationship with that other agency. However, when asked about Page's prior status with that other agency by a Crossfire Hurricane supervisor, SSA 2, who was going to be the affiant on the final FISA renewal application, the OGC Attorney told SSA 2 that Page had never had a relationship with the other U.S. government agency. In addition, the OGC Attorney altered the email that the other U.S. government agency had sent to the OGC Attorney so that the email stated that Page had not been a source for the other agency; the OGC Attorney then forwarded the altered email to SSA 2, who told us he relied on the email. Shortly thereafter, SSA 2 served as the affiant on the final renewal application, which was again silent on Page's prior relationship with the other U.S. government agency.​

So the OGC Attorney fabricated evidence to claim Page was not a government source, when the FBI had an obligation to tell the court that he was.

Also, its the Inspector General (IG) report, not the AG report.