Wash. Rep Shea - “Biblical Basis for War”, Liberty the 51st State, Christian Identity

[Red Baron Farms]

Thanks for sharing your perspective. It doesn't synch with the facts though, unless we're going to allow flimsy excuses like she wore the pants in the family.

He attended Aryan events. He attended services at an unabashed neo nazi church. He and his family members wore swastikas. "Death to Jews" was posted on the wall. A swastika was drawn on MLK birthday on the calendar. His own attorney essentially called him a neo nazi.

There's a thread about this.

Well I can assure you that Randy did not give a damn about it, and didn't particularly even like them. And no Vicki did not wear the pants. She was only traditional clothing, much like you see Amish wearing. You will never see her wearing pants. But she did try to get her husband to join up with them at church. He was not impressed though and everyone who knew him knew it.

"Religion's all a bunch of crap."-Randy Weaver

Randy was neither a NAZI nor Christian Identity, he was a self proclaimed "separatist". ie His live and let live idea. I don't get in your business and you don't get in mine. Basically a sort of a variation on the idea of the South's segregation laws, except he did not even see the point of laws about it. If someone wanted to integrate, that was on them, none of his business. If someone wanted to isolate, that was also on them, none of his business. He was isolationist, but saw no reason for forcing that belief on others. He literally did not give a damn. Just leave him and his neighbors alone and they would leave everyone else alone.

 

[Lurch]

Well I can assure you that Randy did not give a damn about it, and didn't particularly even like them. And no Vicki did not wear the pants. She was only traditional clothing, much like you see Amish wearing. You will never see her wearing pants. But she did try to get her husband to join up with them at church. He was not impressed though and everyone who knew him knew it.

Randy was neither a NAZI nor Christian Identity, he was a self proclaimed "separatist". ie His live and let live idea. I don't get in your business and you don't get in mine. Basically a sort of a variation on the idea of the South's segregation laws, except he did not even see the point of laws about it. If someone wanted to integrate, that was on them, none of his business. If someone wanted to isolate, that was also on them, none of his business. He was isolationist, but saw no reason for forcing that belief on others. He literally did not give a damn. Just leave him and his neighbors alone and they would leave everyone else alone.

Unfortunately, societies cannot function as such if everyone can call their own shots, being disconnected from the larger community. The FoTL movement exemplifies this anarchic attitude, where the right to society's benefits are demanded without the responsibility to contribute.

 

[varwoche]

Well I can assure you that Randy did not give a damn about it, and didn't particularly even like them.

Nothing personal, but I assign little to no weight to naked assurances from anonymous characters on the internet.

And no Vicki did not wear the pants. She was only traditional clothing, much like you see Amish wearing. You will never see her wearing pants.

Wow that's an impressive degree of literalness. Please click the link in my sig; you might enjoy it. All hail Hymie the Robot!

Randy was neither a NAZI nor Christian Identity, he was a self proclaimed "separatist"...

So when he wore nazi paraphernalia, and when he attended a neo nazi church, and when he attended an annual event at Aryan Nations several years running, and when he provided illegally sawed off weapons to a presumed neo-nazi (funny how you minimize that), and when "Death to Jews" was posted on the wall, and when his kids were allowed to harass neighbors with nazi displays ... ignore all that! Someone on the internet claims to know better.

Highly unimpressive.

 

[Red Baron Farms]

Nothing personal, but I assign little to no weight to naked assurances from anonymous characters on the internet.

Fair enough on a skeptic site.

Wow that's an impressive level of literalness. Please click the link in my sig; you might enjoy it. All hail Hymie the Robot!

Was hoping you might enjoy that. But more importantly is the "why". And it turns out the why is because she was Christian Identity and must follow all the old testament laws literally. This is why I found it hard to believe when someone claimed she wasn't. She sure played the part. One of those laws was that the man must also be the boss, which it the meaning of "wear the pants". Vicki took that literally and figuratively, as they all did almost all the Old Testament.

So when he wore nazi paraphernalia, and when he attended a neo nazi church, and when he attended an annual event at Aryan Nations several years running, and when he provided illegally sawed off weapons to a presumed neo-nazi (funny how you minimize that), and when "Death to Jews" was posted on the wall, and when his kids were allowed to harass neighbors with nazi displays ... ignore all that! Someone on the internet claims to know better.

Not hard to understand. When you have a block party in the suburbs with your neighbors, and most are Right Wing Christian moral majority card carrying Republicans, does that make you one? Or did you just attend the local event held by your neighbors? Same there. Except the demographics of that area are very very different. The majority were actually some sort of disenfranchised group that was socially unacceptable somewhere else in society, whether it be Native American Indians, or Neo Nazis, or bitter Nam Vets, or Christian Identity, or Branch Davidians and assorted other similar sects of polygamous religions, etc etc etc.... and all any of them wanted was to escape mainstream society and be left alone. To go "off grid". Surprisingly it all worked too, until people from California started moving in and disrupting the lose societal network they had up there with all sorts of rules those people had tried to move away from. That's why a large number of them were up there.

Highly unimpressive.

That a guy who had ambitions to run for office would actually attend the community events of his neighbors was unusual? I am not seeing it. If the event was held in say Chicago, and those were Illinois NAZI's then yes. I would buy your conclusions. But it is completely different when whack jobs like that actually ARE the community.

 

[Lurch]

Just as gun-totin' is hardly congruent with Christ's teachings, so too is adherence to the Old Testament. To me, a Christian comports the self in accordance with the New Testament (if one is to choose a dividing line in the Good Book.)

These Christian Identity folk seem to be afflicted with a schizophrenic doctrine. Praising Jesus from behind the butt of a rifle. They seem nearer to Jews in their actions, while paying lip service to their avowed Savior, Jesus.I doubt they fully comprehend Christ's message. Or at least they pick and choose to convenience.

 

[Stacyhs]

Just as gun-totin' is hardly congruent with Christ's teachings, so too is adherence to the Old Testament. To me, a Christian comports the self in accordance with the New Testament (if one is to choose a dividing line in the Good Book.)

These Christian Identity folk seem to be afflicted with a schizophrenic doctrine. Praising Jesus from behind the butt of a rifle. They seem nearer to Jews in their actions, while paying lip service to their avowed Savior, Jesus.I doubt they fully comprehend Christ's message. Or at least they pick and choose to convenience.

That hardly makes them unique when it comes to any religion.

 

[Resume]

These are people of the land . . .

Blazing Saddles

They just want to be left alone and protect their god-given rights . . . to discriminate against brown people, homos, wimmins, green nazis, etc. Yeah, it works out real well . . . for them.

 

[varwoche]

An amusing, purported fact I learned from the Bundyville podcast: Shea's wife was forbidden from getting out of bed in the morning before Shea got out of bed.

 

[dudalb]

At this point I expect the Bundys to distance themselves from Shea.
Real irony is the Black Israelites..the group involved in the New Jersey shootings...spout pretty much the same garbage the Identity Christians spout, only difference is who the Jews stole their identity from..

 

[carlitos]

An amusing, purported fact I learned from the Bundyville podcast: Shea's wife was forbidden from getting out of bed in the morning before Shea got out of bed.

Oh, wow. Was that in season 2?

 

[varwoche]

Yes. The link may even lead to season 2.

 

[Stacyhs]

An amusing, purported fact I learned from the Bundyville podcast: Shea's wife was forbidden from getting out of bed in the morning before Shea got out of bed.

Of course she can't. She must be available for his marital rights on demand.

 

[carlitos]

I only made it through season 1, and kind of lost interest towards the end, but looking at the link, season 2 looks more varied and interesting.

 

[varwoche]

Of course she can't. She must be available for his marital rights on demand.

Thanks. I was perplexed by what now seems obvious. Doh!

 

[carlitos]

Wow. Listened to Bundyville season 2 episode 5 yesterday. Nice summary of what this guy is about. Thanks to varwoche.

 

[varwoche]

Wow. Listened to Bundyville season 2 episode 5 yesterday. Nice summary of what this guy is about. Thanks to varwoche.

Sure, he's a state legislator. There are wacky state legislators everywhere. Still, this loon is SO far out on the fringe of the fringe that it's mind-boggling he's an elected official who has been re-elected many times. If red flag laws were implemented surrounding firearms, he'd be #1 on the list.

There are many local officials and former Shea insiders who have vigorously opposed Shea, especially after the revelations over the past year. It's bleakly amusing how far right extreme many of these characters are.

Shea is in my backyard (not exactly; he's not my rep) and my backyard is in the American Redoubt. Hence my interest.

 

[varwoche]

...That a guy who had ambitions to run for office would actually attend the community events of his neighbors was unusual? I am not seeing it. If the event was held in say Chicago, and those were Illinois NAZI's then yes. I would buy your conclusions. But it is completely different when whack jobs like that actually ARE the community.

The excellent Jesse Walter book about Ruby Ridge was sourced extensively from the daughter. The book details Weaver's involvement with neo-nazis and it's not a pretty picture. Even Weaver's attorney more or less ceded that Weaver was a neo-nazi.

Weaver was attending neo-nazi church and attending events at Aryan Nations and wearing nazi paraphernalia YEARS before he ran for office. Your explanation here doesn't cut it whatsoever.

In the end, Walter's assessment of Weaver is not hugely different from what you posted previously. The wife was the driving, maniacal force. Notwithstanding, I don't cut a neo-nazi much slack just because he's a malleable schlump. I suspect that's a common trait among extremists.

 

[carlitos]

Red flag laws — yes. In the podcast they note that a citizen once called the police on Shea and some associates. They were having a conversation in a public diner that was so extreme, she thought that they were terrorists.

 

[Red Baron Farms]

The excellent Jesse Walter book about Ruby Ridge was sourced extensively from the daughter. The book details Weaver's involvement with neo-nazis and it's not a pretty picture. Even Weaver's attorney more or less ceded that Weaver was a neo-nazi.

Weaver was attending neo-nazi church and attending events at Aryan Nations and wearing nazi paraphernalia YEARS before he ran for office. Your explanation here doesn't cut it whatsoever.

In the end, Walter's assessment of Weaver is not hugely different from what you posted previously. The wife was the driving, maniacal force. Notwithstanding, I don't cut a neo-nazi much slack just because he's a malleable schlump. I suspect that's a common trait among extremists.

Kinda interesting that you first suppose he is a neonazi then say that you don't give neonazi's any slack.

You are wrong. He was neither nazi nor Christian although there is no doubt many in the community did try to recruit him, and I suppose that could include inviting him and his wife to church. But I can assure you with certainty, Weaver was neither. So apparently not as malleable as you suppose.

Now if you prefer to simply call him names like some backwoods racist hick, I couldn't argue the case, but I would simply ask if this has a death penalty involved? Death to all racist rednecks, hillbillies and hicks? Because this is exactly the sort of identity politics that causes these fringe elements to clump together and talk about civil war all over again. And by the way, some states like Wyoming, the separatist movement is actually 50/50 in the population ... yeah that's right, very roughly just as many want to leave the US as stay.

i say this simply as a cautionary, to emphasize how angry a fairly large part of this country has become due to what is seen as the feds over stepping their power.

i have my own personal hypothesis why and how to fix it, which no doubt will be certainly debatable. However, simply pretending these sentiments don't even exist will only result in things like the OKC bombing

 

[carlitos]

Randy Weaver was No True Nazi and No True Christian. Got it.

Please cite a source for the claim that 50% of the people in Wyoming want to secede from the union.

Your strawmen about the death penalty and "pretending these sentiments don't exist" are kind of silly.