dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
I don't like the militant restorationists very much, but I would not wish the Aleutian Islands on anybody.
Just read about the WW2 campaign there sometime. ...
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Wash. Rep Shea - “Biblical Basis for War”, Liberty the 51st State, Christian Identity
- Thread starter Tsukasa Buddha
- Start date
I don't like the militant restorationists very much, but I would not wish the Aleutian Islands on anybody.
Just read about the WW2 campaign there sometime. ...
WA state Dems put up a website cancelmattshea.com. The summary timeline fills in some back story on Shea's shenanigans.
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
A few years ago, the State GOP would have thrown Shea under the bus by this time.
How times have changed.
Trebuchet
Penultimate Amazing
That website would have been more effective for the intended audience had it not included the S-word at the bottom.
Norman Alexander
Penultimate Amazing
I have indeed read up about it. That's what makes it a perfect location for these cross-eyed Nazis' new Thousand Year Reich.
Shea interviewed by a John Birch Society moron:
The first few minutes consists of The Muslims Are Coming paranoia. Then a few minutes in defense of Dominionism replete with poor me, ever the victim. Wraps up with Shea promoting the John Birch Society.
I live near a small town inside the borders of proposed Liberty State. In the local paper events section, there are listings for Farmers Market and other local events. It's surreal to read about the local Liberty State chapter needing a new chairperson, alongside the other mundane listings. Tra la la.
The first few minutes consists of The Muslims Are Coming paranoia. Then a few minutes in defense of Dominionism replete with poor me, ever the victim. Wraps up with Shea promoting the John Birch Society.
I live near a small town inside the borders of proposed Liberty State. In the local paper events section, there are listings for Farmers Market and other local events. It's surreal to read about the local Liberty State chapter needing a new chairperson, alongside the other mundane listings. Tra la la.
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
John Birch Society just is not the same since the Soviet Union died.
Ho hum, more leaked chat sessions between Shea and his whacked out cronies.
Once you're on record advocating that non-Christians be killed and their possessions divvied up, it's hard to top that.
Once you're on record advocating that non-Christians be killed and their possessions divvied up, it's hard to top that.
Like many racists, Shea and the other Liberty State / American Redoubt people vehemently deny being racists.
There's a youtube personality named James Allsup, an unabashed neo-nazi who carried a torch in Charlottesville. In one of the leaked chat sessions, Shea proposed reaching out to Allsup to enlist him as an ally.
There's a youtube personality named James Allsup, an unabashed neo-nazi who carried a torch in Charlottesville. In one of the leaked chat sessions, Shea proposed reaching out to Allsup to enlist him as an ally.
Shea said:
That's a really interesting quote, considering that lot of active white supremacist and separatists (of various ilks) know that the FBI monitors them and tries to involve undercover agents. So they always talk about vetting people in a really similar way that Shea is doing. Besides the bad look of wanting to connect with Allsup, when I see that, I see Shea networking exactly like a Nazi, concern about optics and undercover law enforcement and all. I guess that would fly under the radar for a lot of people, but it's pretty damning.
Red Baron Farms
Philosopher
Much much larger than most people think. You might remember "Ruby Ridge".
That was Christian Identity Movement and after the government murdered Randy Weaver's wife and 14 year old kid, it really caused a huge backlash in the area. Enough of a backlash to cause people like Shea to get elected.
That was quite a while back too, but people do not forget. I just happened to live in Northern Idaho when that all went down, and I am pretty sure people would be shocked at the local's opinions. That incident cause a deep running wound in the community that will probably take generations to heal.
PS Just to stop all the back stabbing that always happens after I make a post like this, NO I am not a Christian Identity Movement follower. I just happened to be in the right place at the right time to witness it.
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dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
But you sure sound like an apologist for it.
That backlash was amplified by the Waco Siege, and was part of what motivated the Oklahoma City bomber. Both of those events (Ruby Ridge and Waco) were cited often by the militants at the two Bundy Family standoffs (Bunkerville and Malheur). The Bundys are not Christian Identity, but many of their supporters are.
Red Baron Farms
Philosopher
All true.
Red Baron Farms
Philosopher
Why? Because I don't think it is proper to send in snipers to murder US citizens without due process?
If that means I am an apologist "for it" (whatever "it is"?), then so be it. Yes I was angry at the government too after an obvious unconstitutional abuse of power like that!
Oh an apparently after it all came out, it was pretty much unanimous in agreement it was an abuse of power by the government. Or did you not follow the the Senate Subcommittee on Terrorism, Technology and Government Information hearings and their findings?
Just because I am not Christian Identity doesn't mean I advocate murdering their families! That's just evil. That sort of violence creates more violence in response.
Somehow, I find "Christians" packing heat to be a bit disconnected from the whole Jesus Christ thing.
Red Baron Farms
Philosopher
The Christian Identity movement is heavily influenced by a strong literal reading of the Old testament. They are actually taught "white people" are a lost Israeli "tribe". Very little of the teachings of Jesus made it through to their doctrine.
It is very telling that although Vicki Weaver was indeed at the very least a Christian Identity sympathizer (probably a true believer), her daughter really did not consider herself Christian until very recently. The teachings they received as children not resembling Christianity at all.
Sara Weaver: Remembering Ruby Ridge
Typically Christianity in any form is not a popular topic on a skeptic site. I get that. But you probably can objectively understand that the Christian Identity Movement is quite a bit different than any mainstream Christian teachings?
I went to Idaho simply to help a friend in his logging business since another friend of mine who was helping was not physically fit enough to help with such hard and dangerous work. However, my friend somehow got mixed up with the Christian Identity group up there. It is almost cult like in nature. He somehow got sucked into it. Pretty soon I was running the logging business myself, while my friend went on weeks long "Jubilee" and such in the forest with the rest of that group.
I lost a good friend to the Christian Identity Movement. So I have a very personal reason why I do not like them at all. However, that in no way means I think they need murdered in their homes. The government failed us. They became the very evil that this country was founded to avoid.
It's a shame that Ruby Ridge caused neo nazi scum like Weaver to become a martyr.
@ Red Baron Farms If what happened at Ruby Ridge is to be described as murder, it's important to recognize that Weaver was highly complicit.
@ Red Baron Farms If what happened at Ruby Ridge is to be described as murder, it's important to recognize that Weaver was highly complicit.
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Red Baron Farms
Philosopher
That's actually where the government and many others got Weaver wrong. Weaver was not a Neo Nazi. The whole shotgun thing was an attempt to recruit Weaver as an inside plant to the Neo Nazi compound up there, since they had publicly endorsed Weaver when he ran for sheriff. Everyone assumed Weaver was a Neo Nazi or Christian identity because of that and his wife.
Weaver refused the plea bargain. He was not Neo Nazi, nor was he Christian Identity. Everyone who knew Weaver knew this. It was Vicki who had Christian Identity leanings and background. Weaver was more of a live and let live sort that basically didn't care what the NeoNazis did or didn't do, none of his business. What he did hate was the fact property taxes were soaring 200-300-400% or more in a single year all around Northern Idaho as rich people from California moved in and demanded utilities, paved roads, and such, which meant the locals who sometimes only made a few hundred bucks in real cash a year were thrown off their land for not being able to pay their property tax.
So Randy decided to run for sheriff on the platform that he would not serve any sheriff sales for taxes while he was sheriff. Then he printed up some cards that looked like a monopoly game card "Get out of Jail free" vote for him. He actually almost won! But that publicity is what got him targeted for the entrapment for making a shotgun too short. Even before he was charged he was given the choice that the matter would be dropped if he infiltrated the Neo Nazi compound as an informant. He told them to go to hell.
It is true that immediately the Neo Nazis put a call out to go to Idaho through their christian identity network and they as well as skin heads and all sorts of outsiders from that loose network all over the country showed up. But really that was for Vicki. Everyone who knew Randy knew he did not give a damn one way or the other about that stuff. It was his wife.
That's why when we found out it was a sniper round between the eyes of an unarmed Vicki while holding a baby, we knew that wasn't an accident. Later it came out in the hearings that they were given shoot on sight to kill without warning orders. ie.. Special rules of engagement (ROE) were drafted and approved by FBI Headquarters and the Marshal Service for use on Ruby Ridge supposedly giving the troops permission for murder. It is unconstitutional though. The FBI does not have the right to make outlandish rules of engagement like that, nor the ATF.
In fact they had even tried to call in the Idaho National Guard and we watched the trucks deploy up there. Then there was an infamous shouting match between the National Guard commander and whoever it was in charge of the ATF and Marshals that were camped out there. (there may have even been punches thrown) The next day the National Guard packed up and turned around heading back. They had refused to be part of that, saying it was an illegal operation.
I personally did not hear the shouting match. I was too busy working trying to at least break even in the logging since my friend went AWOL and never paid anyone! I had no time for protesting, and did not like those guys anyway. But the rumors from that shouting match were actually kinda crazy sounding. Rumor was it was about a 50/50 which side the National Guard decided to fight on.... That's probably unfounded though. You know how rumors can be. All I can say with certainty is the National Guard turned right around and absolutely refused to participate once they found out the ROE.
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Thanks for sharing your perspective. It doesn't synch with the facts though, unless we're going to allow flimsy excuses like she wore the pants in the family.
He attended Aryan events. He attended services at an unabashed neo nazi church. He and his family members wore swastikas. "Death to Jews" was posted on the wall. A swastika was drawn on MLK birthday on the calendar. His own attorney essentially called him a neo nazi.
There's a thread about this.