2020 Democratic Candidates Tracker - Part II

[newyorkguy]

That's just the thing. Making a gay man POTUS is a bridge too far for a lot of people whether they admit it or not. His electability is my biggest concern about nominating him. I worry about Warren's electability because she's a woman and because she comes off as too much of a liberal flamethrower.

I wholeheartedly agree and I like both candidates. I would vote for either one in the general election.

I hate to say this, but my instincts tell me Mike Bloomberg is probably the best candidate to ensure we get Trump out of the White House. He was an okay mayor of New York City. I knew many people who despised him but I could never really understand why. The Stop and Frisk program went too far, and Bloomberg was way too locked into it, but other than that, I can't think of any real criticism I have about his performance.

I like him mostly because I think he can win.

 

[cullennz]

I wholeheartedly agree and I like both candidates. I would vote for either one in the general election.

I hate to say this, but my instincts tell me Mike Bloomberg is probably the best candidate to ensure we get Trump out of the White House. He was an okay mayor of New York City. I knew many people who despised him but I could never really understand why. The Stop and Frisk program went too far, and Bloomberg was way too locked into it, but other than that, I can't think of any real criticism I have about his performance.

I like him mostly because I think he can win.

Heard about this Bloomberg bloke this morning.

Probably the only one who has a chance against Trump.

He can just sit on the side line and watch the rest of the Dem candidates off themselves piece by piece, not having to worry about having to have a spotlight on himself, to get donations, and then advertise to death at the last minute.

Kind of sad in a way though, as it shows how shallow politics really is

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

This is from another thread but belongs here. My bad for starting the exchange there cautioning people not to accept the claim blacks won't vote for Buttigieg on face value:

Anything negative about ANY candidate who's not Trump will be spread around by bots and trolls (could be Russian, or some other country's, or just GOP), and yes, we should be wary of to the point of paranoid about amplifying that. It's not just social media, though. "The media cycle" seems to primarily be driven by the actual MSM, followed by the "legit" "alternative media," and individual journalists have their ears to the ground all over the place.

This reminds me of people saying all Presidents lie or all Presidents are narcissists.

Where's the initial evidence blacks don't support Buttigieg? How long ago, how many consistent surveys, was it a direct question or a general one about homosexuals? Was it based on the fact some more traditional religious blacks didn't approve of gay marriage?

 

[acbytesla]

I wholeheartedly agree and I like both candidates. I would vote for either one in the general election.

I hate to say this, but my instincts tell me Mike Bloomberg is probably the best candidate to ensure we get Trump out of the White House. He was an okay mayor of New York City. I knew many people who despised him but I could never really understand why. The Stop and Frisk program went too far, and Bloomberg was way too locked into it, but other than that, I can't think of any real criticism I have about his performance.

I like him mostly because I think he can win.

I don't think he can win. The Democratic party needs African American support and I don't think Bloomberg can get it. You think Mayor Pete has issues with African Americans? Bloomberg would be twice as worse.

Then there is the issue of a billionaire buying the Presidency. This is what it has come down to? Republican and Republican light? Two billionaire babies fighting it out? Sure, I'd vote for Bloomberg over Trump. I'd vote for almost anyone from either party over Trump. But I absolutely hate the idea of the Super Rich totally in control of everything. Bloomberg is only slightly more concerned about the working middle class and poor then Trump.

 

[kellyb]

This is from another thread but belongs here. My bad for starting the exchange there cautioning people not to accept the claim blacks won't vote for Buttigieg on face value:



This reminds me of people saying all Presidents lie or all Presidents are narcissists.

Where's the initial evidence blacks don't support Buttigieg? How long ago, how many consistent surveys, was it a direct question or a general one about homosexuals? Was it based on the fact some more traditional religious blacks didn't approve of gay marriage?

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/nbcblk...g-black-voters-not-just-because-he-s-n1081641

Buttigieg, 37, may have won over many members of the mostly white political commentariat in New York and Washington, and recent polls of Iowa’s overwhelmingly white electorate put him at or near the front of the crowded Democratic field there. But, at the start of October, a poll referenced in The Charleston Post and Courier found Buttigieg had no black voter support in the state and just 4 percent support overall.

Rep. Jim Clyburn, the veteran African American congressman from South Carolina who serves as House majority whip, told CNN recently that there was no question that support for an openly gay candidate was a “generational” issue for older African American voters and would affect Buttigieg’s popularity in the state.

“I know of a lot of people my age that feel that way,” Clyburn, who is 79, said. “I’m not going to sit here and tell you otherwise. I think everybody knows that’s an issue.”

But others say that it is more complicated, and that there are other factors dampening Buttigieg’s support in the South.

“I am sure some latent homophobia is influencing some people’s coolness toward Mayor Pete Buttigieg,” said Andra Gillespie, a political scientist at Emory University who studies black political behavior. “But it’s more complex than ‘They are religious and he’s gay.’”

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Heard about this Bloomberg bloke this morning.

Probably the only one who has a chance against Trump....

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/nbcblk...g-black-voters-not-just-because-he-s-n1081641

That's thin. A local poll in one state, and a stereotype of older black voters.

Yes, religious older black voters were against gay marriage and many probably still are.

Like you also quoted but didn't bolden:

But others say that it is more complicated, and that there are other factors dampening Buttigieg’s support in the South.

“I am sure some latent homophobia is influencing some people’s coolness toward Mayor Pete Buttigieg,” said Andra Gillespie, a political scientist at Emory University who studies black political behavior. “But it’s more complex than ‘They are religious and he’s gay.’”

This is how propaganda works. You start with a thread of truth and weave it into the thread of whole cloth. Look deeper.
WA Po, Jonathan Capehart, Nov 6th

But all the armchair pundits — and actual pundits — perpetuating the lie that blacks are more homophobic than anyone else are smearing African Americans as a whole, that blacks as a people don’t support LGBTQ equality. In fact, that’s a lie, too. Or, as Charles Blow writes with his characteristic fire in the New York Times, “It is a disgusting, racist trope, secretly nursed and insidiously whispered by white liberals with contempt for the very black people they court and need.”...

But Clyburn was correct when he said that “it’s an issue not the way it used to be.” That’s because of those changed hearts and minds because of LGBTQ people coming out, telling our stories and fighting for our lives and humanity. That’s also because of allies joining in the fight with us.

Folks harping on black homophobia conveniently ignore the four straight black men who led on gay rights during the Obama administration — most notably President Barack Obama and then-Attorney General Eric Holder. And folks harping on black homophobia ignore how the Trump administration, since day one, has been laying siege to all the Obama-era LGBTQ equality regulations and protections.

African Americans have evolved on LGBTQ equality just like everyone else.

Then there is the biggest variable of all: If you were a black and had to choose between the white supremacist that is Trump and gay Buttigieg, which would you vote for? What percentage of Trump voters are black?

 

[Stacyhs]

A Biden/Buttigieg ticket would be interesting.

As much as I like Mayor Pete, I do think he jumped the gun running for 2020. I'd prefer he'd run for the House or Senate first and get some federal gov't experience. He's only 37 so has plenty of time to get that experience.

 

[acbytesla]

A Biden/Buttigieg ticket would be interesting.

As much as I like Mayor Pete, I do think he jumped the gun running for 2020. I'd prefer he'd run for the House or Senate first and get some federal gov't experience. He's only 37 so has plenty of time to get that experience.

I like Biden. But I find Mayor Pete much more impressive.

 

[Stacyhs]

I like Biden. But I find Mayor Pete much more impressive.

I agree, but I think a Biden/Buttigieg ticket would be more electable.
If Buttigieg did well as VP he could then run for POTUS the next election. Biden could be a one term president at his age.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

A Biden/Buttigieg ticket would be interesting.

As much as I like Mayor Pete, I do think he jumped the gun running for 2020. I'd prefer he'd run for the House or Senate first and get some federal gov't experience. He's only 37 so has plenty of time to get that experience.

 

[The Shrike]

Mayor Pete, . . . I'd prefer he'd run for the House or Senate first and get some federal gov't experience.

Could an older and wiser Mayor Pete be even better? Sure. But I have ZERO concern about people not "being ready" for the presidency anymore. We're limping through a multiple-scandal-per-day presidency right now with a guy at the helm with not only no experience but no respect at all for public service. We could pick a random person off the street, install them as president, all they'd need to do to save the country from ruin is care about serving the American people and take seriously the oath of office. Obviously I mean a healthy person of at least 35 years who is a US Citizen, but I'm not joking. Simple respect for the office and the rule of law would be an outstanding improvement given how low we've sunk.

Mayor Pete: = honorable, well-spoken, well-educated, highly intelligent public servant who has experience dealing with the challenges and demands of a US City. Moreover, his experience as two of the boots on the ground in Afghanistan gives him both insights into effects of US foreign policy decisions elsewhere in the world, it also provides a depth of understanding into the inner workings of a massive federal agency: the DoD.

Finally, the pejorative "OK Boomer" sprang from frustrations of young people that so many decisions affecting them are being made by people who will not be affected by those decisions. There are plenty of potential voters out there as likely as anything else to be attracted to Mayor Pete specifically because he is young and has little federal government experience.

 

[Stacyhs]

Could an older and wiser Mayor Pete be even better? Sure. But I have ZERO concern about people not "being ready" for the presidency anymore. We're limping through a multiple-scandal-per-day presidency right now with a guy at the helm with not only no experience but no respect at all for public service. We could pick a random person off the street, install them as president, all they'd need to do to save the country from ruin is care about serving the American people and take seriously the oath of office. Obviously I mean a healthy person of at least 35 years who is a US Citizen, but I'm not joking. Simple respect for the office and the rule of law would be an outstanding improvement given how low we've sunk.

Mayor Pete: = honorable, well-spoken, well-educated, highly intelligent public servant who has experience dealing with the challenges and demands of a US City. Moreover, his experience as two of the boots on the ground in Afghanistan gives him both insights into effects of US foreign policy decisions elsewhere in the world, it also provides a depth of understanding into the inner workings of a massive federal agency: the DoD.

Finally, the pejorative "OK Boomer" sprang from frustrations of young people that so many decisions affecting them are being made by people who will not be affected by those decisions. There are plenty of potential voters out there as likely as anything else to be attracted to Mayor Pete specifically because he is young and has little federal government experience.

I can't argue your points nor do I want to. I said my preference would be for Buttigieg to have some federal gov't experience but I would certainly vote for him over Trump any second of the day. Being VP would give him that experience and he'd only be 41 or 42 in 2024.

I'd love a Biden/Buttigieg ticket because I think it would draw in the more moderate Democrats and Independents and the Black vote. Buttigieg would be attractive to the LGBTQ and to those who want a younger candidate.

 

[Brainster]

A Biden/Buttigieg ticket would be interesting.

As much as I like Mayor Pete, I do think he jumped the gun running for 2020. I'd prefer he'd run for the House or Senate first and get some federal gov't experience. He's only 37 so has plenty of time to get that experience.

Nobody goes from the House to the White House. He did try to run for state treasurer but he lost. His problem is simple; in order to get elected to a state-wide office in Indiana, he would have to be a conservative-moderate candidate in a good year for Democrats. But being a conservative-moderate candidate may sell in Indiana but it's a tougher market nationally.

That was the thinking I am sure he went through initially. People forget that one of his early proposals was to stack the Supreme Court, not exactly a plan that one would associate with a "moderate" candidate. But he saw that there was a lane right behind Biden, philosophically anyway and despite their best efforts, Harris and Booker were failing to fill it.

He's the classic "fall in love" candidate for the white Democrats, an increasingly endangered species but not in Iowa and New Hampshire.

 

[acbytesla]

Nobody goes from the House to the White House. He did try to run for state treasurer but he lost. His problem is simple; in order to get elected to a state-wide office in Indiana, he would have to be a conservative-moderate candidate in a good year for Democrats. But being a conservative-moderate candidate may sell in Indiana but it's a tougher market nationally.

That was the thinking I am sure he went through initially. People forget that one of his early proposals was to stack the Supreme Court, not exactly a plan that one would associate with a "moderate" candidate. But he saw that there was a lane right behind Biden, philosophically anyway and despite their best efforts, Harris and Booker were failing to fill it.

He's the classic "fall in love" candidate for the white Democrats, an increasingly endangered species but not in Iowa and New Hampshire.

I don't think "stacking" the court is necessarily a liberal or a progressive idea, but a practical one. What we've seen over the last few years the GOP playing a ruthless game of politics especially as it relates to the court. If the Democrats win the White House and the Senate, I would do it for sure. The present court would be very different if McConnell and the Republicans had not refused to even consider nominated Justice Garland.

 

[acbytesla]

Could an older and wiser Mayor Pete be even better? Sure. But I have ZERO concern about people not "being ready" for the presidency anymore. We're limping through a multiple-scandal-per-day presidency right now with a guy at the helm with not only no experience but no respect at all for public service. We could pick a random person off the street, install them as president, all they'd need to do to save the country from ruin is care about serving the American people and take seriously the oath of office. Obviously I mean a healthy person of at least 35 years who is a US Citizen, but I'm not joking. Simple respect for the office and the rule of law would be an outstanding improvement given how low we've sunk.

Mayor Pete: = honorable, well-spoken, well-educated, highly intelligent public servant who has experience dealing with the challenges and demands of a US City. Moreover, his experience as two of the boots on the ground in Afghanistan gives him both insights into effects of US foreign policy decisions elsewhere in the world, it also provides a depth of understanding into the inner workings of a massive federal agency: the DoD.

Finally, the pejorative "OK Boomer" sprang from frustrations of young people that so many decisions affecting them are being made by people who will not be affected by those decisions. There are plenty of potential voters out there as likely as anything else to be attracted to Mayor Pete specifically because he is young and has little federal government experience.

Yeah, a couple of times people have referred to me as Boomer. I know they meant it as derogatory, but I am a Boomer. But I care very much about future generations.

I also think it's time to pass the torch. It's also why I'm not that enthused with Biden, Warren, Sanders, Bloomberg. Step aside and let someone who has more than a decade or two left to live decide on the future.

 

[TragicMonkey]

Yeah, a couple of times people have referred to me as Boomer. I know they meant it as derogatory, but I am a Boomer. But I care very much about future generations.

I also think it's time to pass the torch. It's also why I'm not that enthused with Biden, Warren, Sanders, Bloomberg. Step aside and let someone who has more than a decade or two left to live decide on the future.

I'd rather have an old person with modern ideas like Warren than a young person apparently dedicated to doing the same old things like Buttgieg.

 

[newyorkguy]

I don't think he can win. The Democratic party needs African American support and I don't think Bloomberg can get it...

I looked up the 2009 NY City mayor's race. Bloomberg won about 35% of the black vote (running against a black challenger) and did better with Hispanics, about 50% 'I think.' (A breakdown of voting in the NY City Mayor's race of ten years ago are hard to find!)

Would Bloomberg do well with black voters against Trump? I'm afraid many black voters might just decide to 'vote' by staying home. But if Bloomberg gets into the primaries full-bore, I think people will find he's a pretty good campaigner. In 2009, even people who voted against him conceded he had been a very competent mayor.

 

[acbytesla]

I looked up the 2009 NY City mayor's race. Bloomberg won about 35% of the black vote (running against a black challenger) and did better with Hispanics, about 50% 'I think.' (A breakdown of voting in the NY City Mayor's race of ten years ago are hard to find!)

Would Bloomberg do well with black voters against Trump? I'm afraid many black voters might just decide to 'vote' by staying home. But if Bloomberg gets into the primaries full-bore, I think people will find he's a pretty good campaigner. In 2009, even people who voted against him conceded he had been a very competent mayor.

I'm not a New Yorker. And I didn't see his campaigns. I have however read multple op-eds of Bloomberg as mayor and frankly they weren't that complimentary. Especially his connection to the poor and middle class and minority outreach.

As for being a good campaigner, maybe he is. I haven't seen it so far. I've seen a few interviews that didn't impress me at all. But my exposure to him has been so far limited.
So he can still change my mind.

The man is worth billions and associates with others that are fabulously wealthy. He's not going to have a problem being ignored. He'll buy the exposure if needed. And that alone is a reason for me to register a strike against the mayor.

 

[newyorkguy]

I found Bloomberg to be a pretty impressive mayor. So did the New York Times when they endorsed his third term in 2009:

Mr. Bloomberg has been a first-rate steady hand during unsteady times. He guided the city out of the post-9/11 recession, then tucked away money during the boom years that followed. That foresight has helped New Yorkers weather one of the worst economic downturns in 80 years. Mayor Bloomberg has easily earned another four years.

He has chosen some of the best people in the country to work for him, and he has mostly let them do their jobs. As a result, many city services operate better than they have for years. The garbage mostly disappears on time. The police and fire departments respond quickly. Mr. Bloomberg’s 311 phone line allows New Yorkers to complain to a live human being. Often, they even see tangible results. Public education is better over all — although parents still need more access to their children’s teachers and schools. Crime is down under Raymond Kelly, the police commissioner, although there is concern again about stop-and-frisk actions, which seem to focus too heavily on Hispanics and African-Americans.
Link

I was also very impressed by Corey Booker when he was Newark mayor and then a U.S. Senator. A lot of people said, "This guy's going to be president someday," and I was one of them.