Grace Millane murder - do we believe the accused?

Even if he is telling the truth, what he did is murder under NZ law, as she died of prolonged pressure to the neck, which at least falls under; "being so reckless as aforesaid, means to cause such bodily injury as aforesaid to one person, and by accident or mistake kills another person".

His post death actions are very much indicative of the actions of someone who is trying to cover up a crime.
 
Didn't he claim that he didn't discover this until the next morning, as her body was on the floor? That would require that her dead body somehow managed to get transferred from the bed to the floor. But I may not have been keeping up with all the story changes.
The act occurred on the floor, that is where she died. He claimed he went to the bathroom and fell asleep in the shower, later returned to bed in the dark and thought she had left.
 
Even if he is telling the truth, what he did is murder under NZ law, as she died of prolonged pressure to the neck, which at least falls under; "being so reckless as aforesaid, means to cause such bodily injury as aforesaid to one person, and by accident or mistake kills another person".

His post death actions are very much indicative of the actions of someone who is trying to cover up a crime.
The defence is along the lines that his post death actions are very much indicative of the actions of someone who is trying to cover up something that looks like a crime.

This was exactly the same in the trials around Peter Plumley Walker, and the accused were acquitted.

Here is a brief summary

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11726909

As I have said a few times, the trial judge in the Millane case was the serial prosecutor.
 
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The act occurred on the floor, that is where she died. He claimed he went to the bathroom and fell asleep in the shower, later returned to bed in the dark and thought she had left.

Most of the accounts I saw said he 'returned to bed' or 'went back to bed' and assumed she had left because she wasn't there.
 
I am sure she died on the floor. The blood from the nose was on the floor and subject to the clean up. It is possible he did not take the stand because it would show his confession to the police involved elements that do not stand scrutiny.
However, I can't see how that has any greater impact than the lies he told about last seeing her at 8pm and so on. This trial is about everything that happened up to the moment of death. The prosecution say he murdered her, he is saying she died during a sex game gone wrong.
 
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This sex gone wrong is nonsense. Sex does not kill. In her case it was being strangled. That it was allegedly during sex should not matter. Just because the sex and even holding her neck may have been consented to, being strangled to death cannot legally be consented to.
 
Even if he is telling the truth, what he did is murder under NZ law, as she died of prolonged pressure to the neck, which at least falls under; "being so reckless as aforesaid, means to cause such bodily injury as aforesaid to one person, and by accident or mistake kills another person".

His post death actions are very much indicative of the actions of someone who is trying to cover up a crime.

I think the one you quoted was referring to intending bodily injury to one person but accidentally killing a different person.

The relevant one would be b) 'if the offender means to cause to the person killed any bodily injury that is known to the offender to be likely to cause death, and is reckless whether death ensues or not.'

The reckless part is referring to whether death ensures, but the bodily injury part requires intent. If the jury accepts that pressure to the neck was not actually intended to cause injury, he could get off.
 
I think the one you quoted was referring to intending bodily injury to one person but accidentally killing a different person.

The relevant one would be b) 'if the offender means to cause to the person killed any bodily injury that is known to the offender to be likely to cause death, and is reckless whether death ensues or not.'

The reckless part is referring to whether death ensures, but the bodily injury part requires intent. If the jury accepts that pressure to the neck was not actually intended to cause injury, he could get off.

You are right, I did misread that.
 
Well firstly, I entirely agree that the actual jury in this case may interpret things in a whole number of different ways. I'd also readily admit that since a) I've obv not been in the courtroom during the whole trial, and b) I've only followed reports of the trial sporadically and recently, I may be way out in my own interpretation.

But

I still stand by my belief that the defendant's actions post death do not at all seem compatible with the actions of someone who came across a consensual sex partner who'd suffered an accidental death. I completely agree that it's reasonable to imagine that someone in such a position might have panicked and been scared of being blamed. But to me that's entirely incompatible with 1) going out to buy a large suitcase and hire a car, stuff the person's body into the suitcase and wheel it through the hotel lobby to the car, drive out of the city, picking up a shovel on the way, bury the body still within the suitcase, clean and return the hire car, act as if nothing has happened, lie to the police about everything when first questioned, and only change that lie of a story when confronted with hard evidence proving the lie; and 2) (and worse, IMO), carrying through with going on another Tinder date the very next night.



Incidentally, another very important point to consider is that (IIRC) the defendant claimed to have come across Millane's body at some point after their sexual encounter, to find her lying dead on the bed with blood coming out of her nose. BUT we know that, whatever version of events is true, she was choked or suffocated to death by his hand. So it's a total certainty that Millane must have been lifeless, limp and unresponsive (and not breathing) at the very moment the defendant removed his hands from her throat or face. So if we accept his claim in this respect, we have to accept that he walked away with zero concern from a limp, lifeless, unresponsive and non-breathing partner at the end of the sexual encounter.... and then only realised something was wrong when he came back into the room to "discover" that she was dead. I cannot believe that for a second. I think he's lying.

It can be put another way, how well can any person remember the details leading to or following a panic attack. As often happens we decide how a person acted and judge that, we also judge what they say - ok when asking what side of the road did you park the car on? Compared to, 'did the windscreen smash before the air bag inflated'. We have a ritual with the upstairs is locked when asked 'did you lock the door,' and being quite sure that it happened 'just to going to check' and finding it locked. This situation is a whole lot ramped up past that.

But a Jury may not see it like that. If one looks for details that are inconsistent in this case there are many, there are also many consistent details between the 2 statements and what pathologists said in particular. Some commentators have fixed on the 'maximum' time of neck pressure when it may have been far less. So far I've heard nothing about immediate unconsciousness by applying pressure to the neck - something taught in unarmed combat and which might by mistake might be applied by a person not knowing about it.

Overall total outrage should be tempered by the fact that Grace had a preference for pressure on her neck during sex, that should not be forgotten. Did it just happen her killer attacked her neck, or was it an invitation to apply pressure that went wrong?
 
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This sex gone wrong is nonsense. Sex does not kill. In her case it was being strangled. That it was allegedly during sex should not matter. Just because the sex and even holding her neck may have been consented to, being strangled to death cannot legally be consented to.

Once again, technically correct is shown to be the worst kind of correct. There's a lot more to sex than penis in vagina, or talking to the little man in the canoe.
 
It can be put another way, how well can any person remember the details leading to or following a panic attack. As often happens we decide how a person acted and judge that, we also judge what they say - ok when asking what side of the road did you park the car on? Compared to, 'did the windscreen smash before the air bag inflated'. We have a ritual with the upstairs is locked when asked 'did you lock the door,' and being quite sure that it happened 'just to going to check' and finding it locked. This situation is a whole lot ramped up past that.

But a Jury may not see it like that. If one looks for details that are inconsistent in this case there are many, there are also many consistent details between the 2 statements and what pathologists said in particular. Some commentators have fixed on the 'maximum' time of neck pressure when it may have been far less. So far I've heard nothing about immediate unconsciousness by applying pressure to the neck - something taught in unarmed combat and which might by mistake might be applied by a person not knowing about it.

Overall total outrage should be tempered by the fact that Grace had a preference for pressure on her neck during sex, that should not be forgotten. Did it just happen her killer attacked her neck, or was it an invitation to apply pressure that went wrong?



Firstly, for my part, there's no outrage involved. It's simply my view of the case. As I think I wrote before, I don't "want" or "need" this man to be convicted. But IMO he should be convicted, based on my understanding of the most important evidence.

Secondly, I believe that all relevant evidence around choking and suffocation is consistent in the relevant timings: that a person can be choked/suffocated into unconsciousness within a time period going from as little as several seconds up to around 2o seconds (and that also depends on the severity of the choking etc). But once the person being choked/suffocated has become unconscious and gone limp and unresponsive with eyes closed, it then takes a significant additional period of time of continued choking/suffocation to actually lead to death. Again this is somewhat variable depending on the "victim" and the method/strength of the "perpetrator", but the minimum is something like 40 seconds longer (I'll search for a relevant cite tomorrow - it's 1.15am here now).

So whatever the defendant did to Millane to choke/suffocate her, he must have continued with it long after Millane closed her eyes and fell unconscious, limp and unresponsive. I simply cannot see any other explanation for that other than that the defendant intended to cause Millane serious injury or death (the test for murder).

And in addition, as I wrote in an earlier post yesterday, the defendant by definition must have seen that Millane was entirely lifeless at the moment he released his hands from her neck or face - because it was the very prolonged application of his hands which caused her death. But if we're to accept his version of events, we are to believe that he felt zero concern for Millane's welfare at that point, and only "discovered" that she was dead when he "came across" her body at a much later time. For me, that quite simply does not, and cannot, ring true. If he'd claimed that he choked her for that time period, then released his grip and waited for her to regain consciousness, and then panicked when he realised she was not in fact simply unconscious but in fact dead, I'd be much more ready to believe that. But that's not what he claimed.

And lastly, you write of a panic attack, and of course I understand that people can do irrational and contradictory things when they're in the middle of such an attack. But I'd venture to say that panic attacks cannot last for 36 hours or longer. And the defendant in this case, having (by his account) come across the accidentally-dead body of Millane in his hotel room, took at least 36 hours - and a good deal of methodical planning and purchasing/hiring - to conceal the body in a suitcase he bought for that purpose, transport it out of his hotel and into a car he hired for that purpose, and bury it using a shovel he bought for that purpose. And furthermore, he went on another Tinder date the very next evening, while (I believe) Millane's body was inside the suitcase inside the boot (trunk) of his hire car...... Oh and then he repeatedly lied to police, only changing to a different version when confronted with evidence which proved his lies.

Those actions, to me, do no seem like the product of a "panic attack". As I wrote previously, I could accept the "panic attack" version if, for example, he'd said he discovered her body and he fled the hotel more-or-less immediately. And if, either once her body had been discovered or there was a missing-person inquiry underway, he'd been open with the police from the start. But that's not what happened of course. What happened is what I wrote in the previous paragraph - and what happened took place over a period of well over a day.
 
https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/nati...s-intent-to-murder/ar-BBX3Q2c?ocid=spartandhp

1st details of Crown closing, concentrating on photos, duration of pressure on the neck and introducing 'reckless intent.' Defence this afternoon Judge tomorrow.



WOAH! I hadn't realised he took several photos of Millane's dead body! For me, that's additional formidable evidence pointing to his guilt. How on Earth can his claim to have panicked be compatible with taking photos of Millane's dead body?

Oh and I also note with great interest that the Crown prosecutor referred to the defence's own expert having opined that it takes a period of "five to ten minutes" to cause brain death from strangulation! And of course almost all of that time would be post Millane becoming unconscious, limp and unresponsive. I happen to understand that this is an upper estimate on timings; but I think it's a given that something over a minute's time must have been spent with continued strangulation beyond the point where Millane fell unconscious for her death to have ensued.


I simply cannot see how a jury can find for anything but murder, once it assesses all of the evidence in this case. But I'd be absolutely open to hear a narrative which accounts for all of the evidence and which is compatible with acquittal (or which is compatible with guilt of manslaughter or even assault/ABH/GBH).
 
Oh and also, from that news article:

CCTV cameras filmed the defendant dumping items in a bin in Albert Park shortly after Ms Millane died.

Detective Inspector Scott Beard said three days had passed before police traced the bin contents to a tip in East Tamaki.

By then, the items were buried under almost 10 metres of soil and searching the 70m by 100m area, would have been too resource-intensive, Mr Beard said.

Mr Dickey walked the jury through a number of internet searches on the man's phone starting with 'Waitākere Ranges' and 'hottest fire' around 1.30am on 1 December.

He reminded the jury the man also watched pornography before a break in activity which resumed in the early morning with more searches, including "time in London" and "are there flesh eating birds in New Zealand".



The actions of a panicking man who'd done nothing more than happen across the dead body of the Millane?
 
PS: I think that everyone interested in this case should read that news article on the Crown's closing address to the jury. Yes, of course I understand that the defence will present a different explanation in its own closing address; but even stripping out the Crown's actual argument, the evidence to which it has referred appears to me to paint its own picture, regardless of any partisan argument being applied to it.
 
https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/nati...lly-and-critically/ar-BBX4mww?ocid=spartandhp

Defence closing. 2 main points - pathologists opinions re the amount of bruising to the neck, or lack of bruising. Secondly, no resistance - the importance I suppose of lack of fingernail DNA belonging to the accused under Millane's nails, crucial evidence that in the normal reaction at hands on the neck is to go for the arms of the attacker.
 
Firstly, for my part, there's no outrage involved. It's simply my view of the case. As I think I wrote before, I don't "want" or "need" this man to be convicted. But IMO he should be convicted, based on my understanding of the most important evidence.

Secondly, I believe that all relevant evidence around choking and suffocation is consistent in the relevant timings: that a person can be choked/suffocated into unconsciousness within a time period going from as little as several seconds up to around 2o seconds (and that also depends on the severity of the choking etc). But once the person being choked/suffocated has become unconscious and gone limp and unresponsive with eyes closed, it then takes a significant additional period of time of continued choking/suffocation to actually lead to death. Again this is somewhat variable depending on the "victim" and the method/strength of the "perpetrator", but the minimum is something like 40 seconds longer (I'll search for a relevant cite tomorrow - it's 1.15am here now).

So whatever the defendant did to Millane to choke/suffocate her, he must have continued with it long after Millane closed her eyes and fell unconscious, limp and unresponsive. I simply cannot see any other explanation for that other than that the defendant intended to cause Millane serious injury or death (the test for murder).

And in addition, as I wrote in an earlier post yesterday, the defendant by definition must have seen that Millane was entirely lifeless at the moment he released his hands from her neck or face - because it was the very prolonged application of his hands which caused her death. But if we're to accept his version of events, we are to believe that he felt zero concern for Millane's welfare at that point, and only "discovered" that she was dead when he "came across" her body at a much later time. For me, that quite simply does not, and cannot, ring true. If he'd claimed that he choked her for that time period, then released his grip and waited for her to regain consciousness, and then panicked when he realised she was not in fact simply unconscious but in fact dead, I'd be much more ready to believe that. But that's not what he claimed.

And lastly, you write of a panic attack, and of course I understand that people can do irrational and contradictory things when they're in the middle of such an attack. But I'd venture to say that panic attacks cannot last for 36 hours or longer. And the defendant in this case, having (by his account) come across the accidentally-dead body of Millane in his hotel room, took at least 36 hours - and a good deal of methodical planning and purchasing/hiring - to conceal the body in a suitcase he bought for that purpose, transport it out of his hotel and into a car he hired for that purpose, and bury it using a shovel he bought for that purpose. And furthermore, he went on another Tinder date the very next evening, while (I believe) Millane's body was inside the suitcase inside the boot (trunk) of his hire car...... Oh and then he repeatedly lied to police, only changing to a different version when confronted with evidence which proved his lies.

Those actions, to me, do no seem like the product of a "panic attack". As I wrote previously, I could accept the "panic attack" version if, for example, he'd said he discovered her body and he fled the hotel more-or-less immediately. And if, either once her body had been discovered or there was a missing-person inquiry underway, he'd been open with the police from the start. But that's not what happened of course. What happened is what I wrote in the previous paragraph - and what happened took place over a period of well over a day.

I think it's clear from the point he didn't ring emergency services, that he wasn't going to stop from his intention to hide the body. I think the idea that the time of an intention put in place out of fear or panic somehow expires is naive. it took a day. One case here previously (30 years ago) a couple drove 5 hours or so with a body to dump in water where from memory it still surfaced at some point.

Your earlier paragraph about the length of time of the pressure to the neck was raised in the defence closing in a para above. I ask you when was Grace going to fight back if not consenting?
 
I think there is no way the bloke is going to get murder.

Maybe manslaughter, but it will be appealed to death and he will end up off.
 
WOAH! I hadn't realised he took several photos of Millane's dead body! For me, that's additional formidable evidence pointing to his guilt. How on Earth can his claim to have panicked be compatible with taking photos of Millane's dead body?

Oh and I also note with great interest that the Crown prosecutor referred to the defence's own expert having opined that it takes a period of "five to ten minutes" to cause brain death from strangulation! And of course almost all of that time would be post Millane becoming unconscious, limp and unresponsive. I happen to understand that this is an upper estimate on timings; but I think it's a given that something over a minute's time must have been spent with continued strangulation beyond the point where Millane fell unconscious for her death to have ensued.


I simply cannot see how a jury can find for anything but murder, once it assesses all of the evidence in this case. But I'd be absolutely open to hear a narrative which accounts for all of the evidence and which is compatible with acquittal (or which is compatible with guilt of manslaughter or even assault/ABH/GBH).

Have not heard or read yet that there was evidence of when the photos were taken - while Grace was alive or dead - clearly pivotal.

Repeating a narrative is probably pointless if you have been unable to connect the defence to this point, but the Defence closing may help. Apparently 6 hours of closing from the Crown and Defence combined so a lot we may never hear. As I've written above important that there was agreement between the pathologists regarding the lack of bruising to the neck, not that there was none but that there was not more. It's in 1 of the 2 links posted today.

Some New Zealanders are surprised by this 'neck pressure' activity generally, and no doubt to the extent to which Grace sought it out. The Defence counsel was at pains to point out that there should be no judgement on that by the Jury, as no doubt the Judge will.
 
From the 2nd link both the Defence and Crown on the act of strangulation. Note the point I made earlier about the pressure to the arteries rendering a person unconscious instantly.

"Mr Brookie also said the absence of damage to Ms Millane's deep neck tissue supported a consensual encounter not an aggressive attack.
"A person who is being strangled against their will will fight, of course they will. If they can't use their hands they will fight in any way they can."
This morning Crown Solicitor for Auckland Brian Dickey told the jury someone couldn't possibly have defensive injuries if they'd quickly passed out; the court having heard this could take seconds if pressure was applied directly to the neck's arteries."
 

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