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Acceptance of Gender Diversity

Thor 2

Philosopher
Thor 2
Joined
May 25, 2016
Messages
7,174
Location
Tiny town west of Brisbane.
I look at something like this with incredulity. That some folk just deny the undeniable because to not do so challenges their mindset.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-11...ustralians-in-australia-talks-survey/11714302

Australians are split on how they think about gender diversity beyond the traditional framework of males and females, new survey data suggests.
Forty-five per cent of Australians somewhat or strongly agree that there are more than two genders, however, 38 per cent disagree and 15 per cent are neutral.
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How can people disagree with a fact that can be observed and has been reported on so much in recent times?
 
In much the same way people deny the reality of anthropomorphic climate change, evolution by natural selection, the (almost) sphericity of the Earth et cetera; they are part of a reality that those people don't want to be true, hence they deny that reality.
 
Would have to see if the question they were answering properly highlighted that gender was a separate thing to biological sex before passing judgment on the 38%

Because it these things usually don't and it all gets scewed
 
I am surprised that the "Don't know" component is so low.

98% of people know what gender is and still no-one can explain it to me.
 
cullennz said:
Would have to see if the question they were answering properly highlighted that gender was a separate thing to biological sex before passing judgment on the 38%

Because it these things usually don't and it all gets scewed
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From what I read it can be a mixture.

A person can have male genitals but have XX chromosomes. Whether such a person would tend to identify as a woman predominantly I don't know.

We also have people born with ambiguous genitalia. In years gone by decisions were made by parents and doctors to surgically promote one sex at the expense of another. Tragically, sometimes the subject would disagree with the decision made.
 
Thor 2 said:
I look at something like this with incredulity. That some folk just deny the undeniable because to not do so challenges their mindset.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-11...ustralians-in-australia-talks-survey/11714302




How can people disagree with a fact that can be observed and has been reported on so much in recent times?
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re the highlighted: I don't think it's a fact that can be observed is it?

for instance, what if everyone who said they didn't align with male or female, were just suffering from a case of 'wanting to feel special'?

I don't believe that of course, but to label things as facts you need to rule a lot of stuff, if not everything else, out.
 
catsmate said:
In much the same way people deny the reality of anthropomorphic climate change, evolution by natural selection, the (almost) sphericity of the Earth et cetera; they are part of a reality that those people don't want to be true, hence they deny that reality.
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I have a nephew like that. As an enthusiastic (Jesus talks to me) Christian he seems to think God can't make mistakes like that so a person is either male or female. A mountain of evidence about the occurrence of mixed up chromosomes, ambiguous genitalia and such, has no effect on his mindset.
 
Thor 2 said:
I have a nephew like that. As an enthusiastic (Jesus talks to me) Christian he seems to think God can't make mistakes like that so a person is either male or female. A mountain of evidence about the occurrence of mixed up chromosomes, ambiguous genitalia and such, has no effect on his mindset.
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Mountain of evidence? All the stuff you mentioned is pretty damn rare. And it is physical too. I think that in today's parlance that means "sex", while "gender" means mental differences. So, 2 sexes, 42 'genders'. Biology vs Psychology?

Now, what is the question in the OP- Biologically speaking, or psychological?
 
casebro said:
Mountain of evidence? All the stuff you mentioned is pretty damn rare. And it is physical too. I think that in today's parlance that means "sex", while "gender" means mental differences. So, 2 sexes, 42 'genders'. Biology vs Psychology?

Now, what is the question in the OP- Biologically speaking, or psychological?
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This is the bit I mentioned wanting to see if it was made clear with the question before judging the %s of what people said
 
casebro said:
Mountain of evidence? All the stuff you mentioned is pretty damn rare. And it is physical too. I think that in today's parlance that means "sex", while "gender" means mental differences. So, 2 sexes, 42 'genders'. Biology vs Psychology?

Now, what is the question in the OP- Biologically speaking, or psychological?
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Something does not have to be common for the evidence of its existence to be overwhelming or mountainous.

I know some argue that many transgender folk are just screwed up in the head, and this lowers the credibility of their claim, that they are a gender other than that suggested by genitalia. Hence they reject the notion of gender diversity.

When confronted with the evidence that ambiguous genitalia and chromosome irregularities are observed (albeit a rarity) a plank is knocked from their platform. The honest ones should concede defeat but many just dodge around the issue.
 
Thor 2 said:
I know some argue that many transgender folk are just screwed up in the head...
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One could argue that that transwomen are undeniably women, transmen undeniably men, and still only count up to two genders, i.e. those who move through society as women and those who move though society as men.

How do you propose to count to three?
 
Thor 2 said:
I have a nephew like that. As an enthusiastic (Jesus talks to me) Christian he seems to think God can't make mistakes like that so a person is either male or female. A mountain of evidence about the occurrence of mixed up chromosomes, ambiguous genitalia and such, has no effect on his mindset.
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So maybe ambiguity is not a "mistake".

(Also you just made me remember a dumb schoolyard taunt from childhood. It goes like "God made the mountains. God made the lakes. God made [target's name here]. We all make mistakes." It was cringey even for a kindergardener.)
 
d4m10n said:
One could argue that that transwomen are undeniably women, transmen undeniably men, and still only count up to two genders, i.e. those who move through society as women and those who move though society as men.

How do you propose to count to three?
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Non-binary is a popular third gender category.

But we have to untangle the confusion between gender and sex. There are intersex people of course, but they aren't (necessarily) the same as non-binary (gender) people.
 
cullennz said:
Would have to see if the question they were answering properly highlighted that gender was a separate thing to biological sex before passing judgment on the 38%
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You obviously need to actually read the linked article, because the questions are clearly stated.

Click before comment.
 
Puppycow said:
But we have to untangle the confusion between gender and sex. There are intersex people of course, but they aren't (necessarily) the same as non-binary (gender) people.
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Which one are we talking about here?

Sent from my SM-T560NU using Tapatalk
 
d4m10n said:
One could argue that that transwomen are undeniably women, transmen undeniably men, and still only count up to two genders, i.e. those who move through society as women and those who move though society as men.

How do you propose to count to three?
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There are many, many gender identities. Not just three.

And by the way, the correct term is "trans men" and "trans women", not "transmen" or "transwomen".
 
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