Cont: Trans Women are not Women II: The Bath Of Khan

[Rolfe]

I've never seen such a photo, though that doesn't mean they don't exist. But I would imagine if someone was taking a selfie for use in a profile or something like that, and decided that a public lavatory was the best place to do it, they would probably try to avoid it being obvious that this was the case. They'd try for a plain background, and/or crop the picture. This is very different from the "hey look at me, I'm in the loo!" pictures I've been seeing taken by men. (Most of what I've seen has been obvious AGP flaunting of their success in occupying a women's space.)

But for goodness sake, what a fuss about a throwaway line, which wasn't even a claim of any sort, and was mainly there to point out that neither Fionne nor Miranda are women.

 

[TragicMonkey]

But for goodness sake, what a fuss about a throwaway line, which wasn't even a claim of any sort, and was mainly there to point out that neither Fionne nor Miranda are women.

If you don't intend comments to be responded to, don't make them.

 

[Rolfe]

Nobody has exactly proved that women taking "look at me I'm in the loo!" selfies and posting them on social media is a commonplace occurrence mind you.

And all I said was that it wasn't something I'd ever seen. I can't copy/paste a quote from my phone but here's the link. http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=12896402#post12896402 Last paragraph. Please explain where the gotcha is that you're working so hard for.

 

[Rolfe]

So, in all seriousness, this is what's going on.

I present this thread as a discussion point.

https://twitter.com/LaraAdamsMille1/status/1196219482928287745

I thought there were important points there, but nobody has picked up on this at all. But that's OK. However, the casual remark at the end seems to have generated an awful lot of controversy.

I've never yet seen a woman photograph herself inside a public bathroom of any description. What is it with men and mirror-selfies in the loo?

It's a common place for people of any sex to take photos. Your age is showing!

I've seen more images of smug men posting selfies in the ladies loo than I care to count. ... I have never seen a single image posted online where a woman has photographed herself in the loo. Perhaps I follow the wrong accounts.

I fear your anecdote of selecting data fails to pass the bar of what constitutes evidence.

I fear you have mistaken a casual remark for a claim of some sort.

I hope everyone reading this thread assesses your remarks to the appropriate valuation.

I've never seen such a photo, though that doesn't mean they don't exist. ...

But for goodness sake, what a fuss about a throwaway line, which wasn't even a claim of any sort, and was mainly there to point out that neither Fionne nor Miranda are women.

If you don't intend comments to be responded to, don't make them.

So, I've seen a remarkable number of selfies posted online taken by men preening themselves in the ladies loo, also a few of men masturbating in the loo (not necessarily in the ladies), and never a single comparable one taken by a woman. I pass a remark to that effect, "what is it with men ans selfies in the loo?"

Apparently women might choose the lighting and the big mirrors in a public lavatory to take a well-lit selfie as a profile picture. Which woudn't be the same thing, but no evidence is produced. Apparently public toilets are a common place for people of both sexes to take pictures, but again no evidence is produced.

I passed as remark about what I'd observed. I'm perfectly happy to be corrected if anyone has any concrete evidence to the contrary, but no. My casual remark has taken on the quality of a pronouncement that has to be attacked and defended.

It's a common theme in this thread. Any off-colour behaviour by men that seems to be a primarily male trait, from child molestation to rooting through bins for discarded used sanitary products to posting selfies while preening in the now-colonised safe space of the opposite sex, somehow has to be turned around and presented as something women are just as likely to do.

It's not working. We see you.

 

[Matthew Best]

Are you finished in there yet? How the bathroom selfie became so huge

Historically, the bathroom selfie used to be perceived as fairly cringeworthy. If you had to take a picture of yourself in the bathroom mirror, camera flash obscuring half your face, it implied you had no friends to do it for you. But the bathroom selfie has evolved – as the million-plus hashtagged Instagram bathroom selfies attest – a shower selfie also proves how good you look without makeup, sticking a leg out of bathtub bubbles gives you the chance to flash some flesh while pretending not to be too craven in your attention-seeking.

 

[Rolfe]

Oh, that's a different matter. I hadn't seen that. I still think the gloating "Look at me I'm in the female space" thing from the (usually newly-transitioned) AGPs is a bit creepy, but actual evidence is always good around here.

So bathroom selfies are a regular thing. Obviously I do follow the wrong accounts. (I have to confess I've never been near Instagram.) End of drama.

 

[TragicMonkey]

So, in all seriousness, this is what's going on.




I thought there were important points there, but nobody has picked up on this at all. But that's OK. However, the casual remark at the end seems to have generated an awful lot of controversy.

























So, I've seen a remarkable number of selfies posted online taken by men preening themselves in the ladies loo, also a few of men masturbating in the loo (not necessarily in the ladies), and never a single comparable one taken by a woman. I pass a remark to that effect, "what is it with men ans selfies in the loo?"

Apparently women might choose the lighting and the big mirrors in a public lavatory to take a well-lit selfie as a profile picture. Which woudn't be the same thing, but no evidence is produced. Apparently public toilets are a common place for people of both sexes to take pictures, but again no evidence is produced.

I passed as remark about what I'd observed. I'm perfectly happy to be corrected if anyone has any concrete evidence to the contrary, but no. My casual remark has taken on the quality of a pronouncement that has to be attacked and defended.

It's a common theme in this thread. Any off-colour behaviour by men that seems to be a primarily male trait, from child molestation to rooting through bins for discarded used sanitary products to posting selfies while preening in the now-colonised safe space of the opposite sex, somehow has to be turned around and presented as something women are just as likely to do.

It's not working. We see you.

You are irrational on this subject. You constantly mistake your own views and experiences as being universal. You make pronouncements as if you are the spokesman for all women. When you are called on either of those things you say it was just a remark, and then you come back later trying to defend it by tying it back into your hysterical conspiracy theories about "colonization of women's spaces". You persist in relating bizarre fears like men stealing used sanitary products from public restrooms. This is not skepticism. Your personal hangups around the sexes should absolutely not be a factor in determining anyone else's civil rights.

 

[TragicMonkey]

Oh, that's a different matter. I hadn't seen that. I still think the gloating "Look at me I'm in the female space" thing from the (usually newly-transitioned) AGPs is a bit creepy, but actual evidence is always good around here.

So bathroom selfies are a regular thing. Obviously I do follow the wrong accounts. (I have to confess I've never been near Instagram.) End of drama.

You can't pronounce "end of drama" after a long diatribe including your persistent accusation that men are stealing used tampons from women's restrooms. That's not how this works. You can't walk back your outbursts.

 

[Roboramma]

Nobody has exactly proved that women taking "look at me I'm in the loo!" selfies and posting them on social media is a commonplace occurrence mind you.

It's not exactly the same thing, but the women at my yoga studio very often take photos of themselves in the changing rooms and post those photos online. I think it's a "look, I went to a yoga class today" thing. They are of course fully clothed in those photos.

We once had an incident where one woman was taking a selfie and another was getting changed and caught in the background of the photo. She got angry and told the first woman not to take photos of her undressing. The first replied that it wasn't a big deal.

I only heard about this some time afterward (from the woman who had been caught in the photo). Happily the photo taker doesn't come anymore otherwise I'd have had to deal with it.

 

[Rolfe]

You can't pronounce "end of drama" after a long diatribe including your persistent accusation that men are stealing used tampons from women's restrooms. That's not how this works. You can't walk back your outbursts.

Yes, I can. I wasn't the one that provoked the long diatribe. You were the one who demented on and on without producing any evidence for your position. See how easy it is when you provide the evidence?

 

[TragicMonkey]

Yes, I can. I wasn't the one that provoked the long diatribe. You were the one who demented on and on without producing any evidence for your position. See how easy it is when you provide the evidence?

Ok, Boomer!

 

[Rolfe]

I accept your apology.

 

[TragicMonkey]

I accept your apology.

Yeah, that's what happened. You have a clear and cogent grasp of things. Amazing you have the time, what with your shifts in the ladies room guarding the trash from fake transwomen conspiring to steal used tampons, and other "colonization" activity.

 

[Ziggurat]

Sorry, TM, I gotta go with Rolfe on this one. She expressed something about her personal unfamiliarity with a genre of selfie. Whatever the commonality of that genre, there was never any reason to doubt her expression of her own experience regarding it.

 

[TragicMonkey]

Sorry, TM, I gotta go with Rolfe on this one. She expressed something about her personal unfamiliarity with a genre of selfie. Whatever the commonality of that genre, there was never any reason to doubt her expression of her own experience regarding it.

The point was that Rolfe consistently mistakes her own experience and views as universal. This is a severe failing in anyone claiming to be skeptical. When married to the habit of making pronouncements as if the designated spokesman for an entire country or sex it becomes risible.

 

[Ziggurat]

The point was that Rolfe consistently mistakes her own experience and views as universal.

You picked a bad example to try to illustrate that point.

 

[Rolfe]

Sorry, TM, I gotta go with Rolfe on this one. She expressed something about her personal unfamiliarity with a genre of selfie. Whatever the commonality of that genre, there was never any reason to doubt her expression of her own experience regarding it.

Having seen the "bathroom selfie" article in the Guardian I'm inclined to think that the preening AGP "look at me in the ladies!" selfies are not actually quite as creepy as I thought they were. I still think JY is beyond creepy though.

 

[Strawberry]

The point was that Rolfe consistently mistakes her own experience and views as universal. This is a severe failing in anyone claiming to be skeptical. When married to the habit of making pronouncements as if the designated spokesman for an entire country or sex it becomes risible.

Not half as risible as a person claiming to be skeptical posting "ok boomer."

Edited by Agatha: 

Edited for breach of rule 0 and rule 12

 

[TragicMonkey]

You picked a bad example to try to illustrate that point.

It was merely the latest in two threads worth of examples. The straw and the camel. But I agree I wasted my effort: this thread cannot be salvaged for rationality because basic errors in thinking are tolerated as par for course when they come from one side of the argument.

 

[Darat]

Selfies in the loo? You'll have seen women posting these online then?

I've had plenty of female friends send me photos in front of loo mirrors. It is unremarkably common for both sexes. I'd say in my circle of friends it is pretty much only the ladies that do this. Out at the theatre for example they'll post a funny photo with something like "musical is terrible, loading up with double double g&t at intervale" and the photo will show the mirror with several of them holding a couple of glasses each.