Military coup in Bolivia removes president Morales.

[TurkeysGhost]

Haven't seen any posts about this anywhere.

A military coup in unfolding in Bolivia. President Morales has fled to Mexico under fear of being arrested or murdered by the military.

It is becoming increasingly clear that complaints about voting irregularity were just a pretext for a coup.

Jeanine Añez has declared herself the interim president. She is the head of a far-right party that is not popular, carrying less than 5% of the vote.

She has declared that the police and military will not be prosecuted for any murders they commit in order to restore order.

Añez has announced the formation of a "special apparatus" who's mission is to arrest members of the MAS party, who currently hold about 2/3 of the seats in the legislature.

Despite all this, many politicians in the Western world refuse to acknowledge that this is a military coup.

https://www.commondreams.org/news/2019/11/18/pinochet-style-dictatorship-bolivias-coup-government-threatens-arrest-leftist

 

[ponderingturtle]

From this article it seems a bit hard to say at the moment how much it counts as a coup or not.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/nov/17/bolivia-more-volatile-than-ever-as-president-flees-and-leaders-denounce-a-coup

It doesn't look like either Morales or Añez are terribly interested in keeping democracy going.

There seem to be some real issues with the vote, and declaring victory before the counting is done and removing the term limits for president are not great signs that Morales is on the up and up.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

From this article it seems a bit hard to say at the moment how much it counts as a coup or not.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/nov/17/bolivia-more-volatile-than-ever-as-president-flees-and-leaders-denounce-a-coup

It doesn't look like either Morales or Añez are terribly interested in keeping democracy going.

There seem to be some real issues with the vote, and declaring victory before the counting is done and removing the term limits for president are not great signs that Morales is on the up and up.

I think regardless of any problems with Morales, it's still a coup.

The military is arresting dissidents and installed Anez into power. The police are killing protesters in the streets.

 

[ahhell]

Doesn't seem like there's a real good side in this story. I think Ponding is correct, neither Anez nor Morales seem much interested in democratic values.

Edit to add a link and a quote that I find interesting.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/12/world/americas/bolivia-evo-morales-coup.html

Seemingly, the events in Bolivia fit the popular conception of a street revolution: Citizens filled the streets to demand the resignation of a leader who refused to respect the limits on his power, eventually recruiting powerful institutions from the left and right to make that come about. The government remains in the hands of elected civilians, who have promised new elections, and Mr. Morales remains free.

It also seemingly matched the popular conception of a coup, with the military calling on the president to step down and, sure enough, with that happening. Mr. Morales himself called his removal a coup. While he has since softened his language, he has also accepted asylum in Mexico.

In one conception, the people heroically saved democracy; in the other, a handful of elites cravenly betrayed it. Both cite the same set of facts.

 

[timhau]

Doesn't seem like there's a real good side in this story. I think Ponding is correct, neither Anez nor Morales seem much interested in democratic values.

I'm not a fan of what Anez stands for, but given the level of unrest, I'd be willing to give her the benefit of a doubt - for now. Morales wore his out a few years ago.

Bolivia has had its share of military coups. This doesn't look much like them - for now.

 

[theprestige]

Despite all this, many politicians in the Western world refuse to acknowledge that this is a military coup.

What a weird thing to say. I doubt many polticians have been asked the question and refused to answer. I think you probably mean that many politicians have not yet made a statement about what's going on in Bolivia.

And that is reasonable. Most western politicians have immediate duties to their constituents, who elected them and have interests much closer to home than what's going on in Bolivia. Most politicians probably don't know enough about the situation there, don't know enough about their own government's diplomatic and economic position (which is probably still developing), and don't know enough about their own party's position (which is probably also still developing), to have anything meaningful to say at this time.

Did you have any specific politicians in mind, who you believe can and should be voicing public opinions about Bolivia at this time?

 

[ponderingturtle]

I think regardless of any problems with Morales, it's still a coup.

The military is arresting dissidents and installed Anez into power. The police are killing protesters in the streets.

That seems to be what was called for, provided she does her job of holding elections in 90 days which see doesn't seem to care about.

The elections seem to be invalid and need to be redone and the procedure for that is to have the person in her position be temporary president to do that. If she refuses to hold elections then it would be a fall of democracy, but this seems more of a breakdown in democracy that a true military coup.

I also did not see that the military is solidly behind her,

 

[TurkeysGhost]

That seems to be what was called for, provided she does her job of holding elections in 90 days which see doesn't seem to care about.

The elections seem to be invalid and need to be redone and the procedure for that is to have the person in her position be temporary president to do that. If she refuses to hold elections then it would be a fall of democracy, but this seems more of a breakdown in democracy that a true military coup.

I also did not see that the military is solidly behind her,

I suppose a wait and see is in order, but the arrests of opposition politicians and journalists are a very bad sign. I would expect that effort will be made to prevent MAS from fielding candidates on some flimsy pretext.

Seems like a very real possibility to me that the anti-Morales talking points are just a pretext to violently remove a fairly popular leftist government and install an unpopular, hard right government in its place. The "transitional" government is already taking steps that most would consider beyond the scope of an interim government, such as radically changing policy unrelated to holding a prompt election.

The political purge is ramping up, not calming
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/16/world/americas/bolivia-anez-morales.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share

 

[8enotto]

The only thing on Mexican news is blurbs of the temp leader calling the deposed leader to justice.

He did leave before the coup took real force.

Either way, best to worry for him later and get the country back on its feet now.

 

[Childlike Empress]

Haven't seen any posts about this anywhere.

I GIMPed a wiphala into my avatar yesterday in solidarity with the people who now suffer under these freaks for a (I predict short) while, but I didn't feel like knowing what the usual suspects here have to relay about what they read in the Guardian or NYT.

For those interested, me and my comrades at ACLOS have compiled a bunch of information.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Haven't seen any posts about this anywhere.

A military coup in unfolding in Bolivia. President Morales has fled to Mexico under fear of being arrested or murdered by the military.

It is becoming increasingly clear that complaints about voting irregularity were just a pretext for a coup.

Jeanine Añez has declared herself the interim president. She is the head of a far-right party that is not popular, carrying less than 5% of the vote.

She has declared that the police and military will not be prosecuted for any murders they commit in order to restore order.

Añez has announced the formation of a "special apparatus" who's mission is to arrest members of the MAS party, who currently hold about 2/3 of the seats in the legislature.

Despite all this, many politicians in the Western world refuse to acknowledge that this is a military coup.

https://www.commondreams.org/news/2019/11/18/pinochet-style-dictatorship-bolivias-coup-government-threatens-arrest-leftist

I wonder if the US was involved at all. Boy, that's really taking us back to the 60s, Trump's favorite years.

I will however, await more information.

 

[McHrozni]

Haven't seen any posts about this anywhere.

A military coup in unfolding in Bolivia. President Morales has fled to Mexico under fear of being arrested or murdered by the military.

Lol, no.

Morales 'won' the reelection, but voting irregularities were so profound he couldn't keep up the pretense. The protests against Morales have been going on for a while and police joined them.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...scattered-anti-morales-protests-idUSKBN1XI20M

It is becoming increasingly clear that complaints about voting irregularity were just a pretext for a coup.

No, that's just propaganda.

Jeanine Añez has declared herself the interim president. She is the head of a far-right party that is not popular, carrying less than 5% of the vote.

No, she was just the person Bolivian constitution, written in 2009 when Morales was president, says should take over in that situation. If following the constitution the 'ousted' president wrote is a coup, you're on the wrong side of the argument.

She has declared that the police and military will not be prosecuted for any murders they commit in order to restore order.

Añez has announced the formation of a "special apparatus" who's mission is to arrest members of the MAS party, who currently hold about 2/3 of the seats in the legislature.

I can't find any evidence of either. I assume both are fake news. It would be nothing new for the propaganda site you cited.

https://www.commondreams.org/views/...ted-tyrant-challenging-western-oil-domination
https://www.commondreams.org/views/2014/02/27/cheering-democratic-coup-ukraine

Politically, the site is about as far deep in the Russian rectum as Trump is. The only difference that I can see is that Trump knows it.

Despite all this, many politicians in the Western world refuse to acknowledge that this is a military coup.

Maybe it's because a corrupt politician was ousted in line with the constitution he himself wrote and that's the opposite of a coup.

McHrozni

 

[McHrozni]

I wonder if the US was involved at all. Boy, that's really taking us back to the 60s, Trump's favorite years.

I will however, await more information.

I sincierly doubt it. The situation looks similar to that in Venezuela. A populist leftlist took power and stretched it above and beyond democratic norms. Once his antics became unbearable the electorate denied him and the dictator and his ruling elite refused to acknowledge the reality of the sitution.

There's no need for any US involvement at all. The American involvement in Venezuela was exposed by WikiLeaks for all to see, the nefarious "coup attempt" amounted to helping a group of women attain some workplace rights that were guaranteed by the law and ignored by the state. Two more "nefarious operations" were exposed, in one the evil American agents helped an organization for the disabled people make Caracas more accessible to people with various disabilities, in the other they helped organize garbage removal from an impovrished area their government ignored. That was essentially the extent of American involvement.

That cable is routinely used as proof USA staged an attempted coup against Maduro. I guess the situation in Bolivia is similar.

McHrozni

 

[TurkeysGhost]

I sincierly doubt it. The situation looks similar to that in Venezuela. A populist leftlist took power and stretched it above and beyond democratic norms. Once his antics became unbearable the electorate denied him and the dictator and his ruling elite refused to acknowledge the reality of the sitution.

There's no need for any US involvement at all. The American involvement in Venezuela was exposed by WikiLeaks for all to see, the nefarious "coup attempt" amounted to helping a group of women attain some workplace rights that were guaranteed by the law and ignored by the state. Two more "nefarious operations" were exposed, in one the evil American agents helped an organization for the disabled people make Caracas more accessible to people with various disabilities, in the other they helped organize garbage removal from an impovrished area their government ignored. That was essentially the extent of American involvement.

That cable is routinely used as proof USA staged an attempted coup against Maduro. I guess the situation in Bolivia is similar.

McHrozni

Morales was the plurality winner of the election, so he's not unpopular as you claim. The disputed election results had to do with whether he had won by at least 10% margin to avoid a runoff.

No, she was just the person Bolivian constitution, written in 2009 when Morales was president, says should take over in that situation. If following the constitution the 'ousted' president wrote is a coup, you're on the wrong side of the argument.

Yes, she was the person in line for succession after the military ran off both the president and vice president. A resignation at the point of a bayonet is not exactly what most would call the lawful transition of power.

I can't find any evidence of either. I assume both are fake news. It would be nothing new for the propaganda site you cited.

Then you didn't look very hard. It was a public decree. Here's another source.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/the_americas/in-bolivia-an-interim-leader-is-leaving-her-conservative-mark/2019/11/18/897f42ea-0a0b-11ea-8054-289aef6e38a3_story.html
The decree granting impunity to kill was issued on Nov 14. On Nov 15 the military opened fire on protests in Cochabamba, killing 9 and injuring dozens.


from wikipedia (the original sources are spanish, so some faith is required here):

"Arturo Murillo, Áñez’s new interior minister, vowed to “hunt down” his predecessor Juan Ramón Quintana, a prominent Morales ally, stoking fears of a “witch-hunt” against members of the previous administration.[64] He later announced he would start arresting certain members of the previous government who he accused of “subversion”.[73] Roxana Lizárraga, Áñez's communication minister, stated that she had a list of journalists who were "involved in sedition" and threatened them with persecution.[63]"


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Bolivian_political_crisis#cite_note-73

New elections have yet to be scheduled. We'll see if the coup is really interested in honoring the constitution, which requires a new election in 90 days.

 

[kellyb]

I wonder if the US was involved at all. Boy, that's really taking us back to the 60s, Trump's favorite years.

I will however, await more information.

You might like this twitter feed:
https://twitter.com/MaxBlumenthal

Here's who Max is:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Blumenthal

Max Blumenthal (born December 18, 1977) is an American author, journalist, and blogger. He was awarded the 2014 Lannan Foundation Cultural Freedom Notable Book Award for his book Goliath: Life and Loathing in Greater Israel (2013).[1][2] He was formerly a writer for AlterNet,[3] The Daily Beast, Al Akhbar, and Media Matters for America,[4] and was selected as a Fellow of the Nation Institute.[5] Blumenthal established The Grayzone in 2015 and continues to edit and write for the website

Also, check this out:

https://twitter.com/caitoz/status/1196252869864742912

(I can't completely write off the possibility that the video is people just acting, and the source, that Matt Binder guy, is up to something nefarious. But damn. Cait thinks he's legit, and I've never caught her being wrong or using a dubious source before, but nobody is perfect.)

 

[TurkeysGhost]

I wonder if the US was involved at all. Boy, that's really taking us back to the 60s, Trump's favorite years.

I will however, await more information.

Spanish posts from alleged Bolivian tagged with "Bolivia No Hay Golpe", which is "No coup in Bolivia" was trending on Twitter out of VA. Langley VA is where the CIA spooks are headquartered.

Sloppy work from the feds.

https://twitter.com/AllezLesBoulez/status/1194085622924939265

 

[McHrozni]

Morales was the plurality winner of the election, so he's not unpopular as you claim. The disputed election results had to do with whether he had won by at least 10% margin to avoid a runoff.

The way the election was handled by authorities rises deep questions about whether or not the count was fair and there are allegations of widespread fraud that go unadressed by the officials. The count was suspended with no good reason and Morales declared the winner.

A clear winner with nothing to hide wouldn't need to do so.

Yes, she was the person in line for succession after the military ran off both the president and vice president. A resignation at the point of a bayonet is not exactly what most would call the lawful transition of power.

Military?

There were three weeks of incessant protests, joined up by police who were apparently fed up with the government. How is that a military coup?


Then you didn't look very hard. It was a public decree. Here's another source.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/the_americas/in-bolivia-an-interim-leader-is-leaving-her-conservative-mark/2019/11/18/897f42ea-0a0b-11ea-8054-289aef6e38a3_story.html[/quote]

Paywall, sorry.

The decree granting impunity to kill was issued on Nov 14. On Nov 15 the military opened fire on protests in Cochabamba, killing 9 and injuring dozens.

I presume the actual news is along the lines of:

“It is not a license for the Armed Forces to kill,” Presidency Minister Jerjes Justiniano told a press conference. He said the decree is based on the Criminal Code, which states that “if one defends oneself in self-defense, there is no penalty.”

https://apnews.com/530280a8d9674f58ad19af8d3f00edee

There's also this:

Protesters said police fired Friday when demonstrators tried to cross a military checkpoint in Sacaba, a town near Cochabamba.

"Arturo Murillo, Áñez’s new interior minister, vowed to “hunt down” his predecessor Juan Ramón Quintana, a prominent Morales ally, stoking fears of a “witch-hunt” against members of the previous administration.[64] He later announced he would start arresting certain members of the previous government who he accused of “subversion”.[73] Roxana Lizárraga, Áñez's communication minister, stated that she had a list of journalists who were "involved in sedition" and threatened them with persecution.[63]"

Here's the claim from your post:
Añez has announced the formation of a "special apparatus" who's mission is to arrest members of the MAS party

Are you now changing the claim the goal of the apparatus is not to arrest members of the MAS party, but rather specific leaders, for whatever reason?

I'm asking because the two claims are like night and day.

New elections have yet to be scheduled. We'll see if the coup is really interested in honoring the constitution, which requires a new election in 90 days.

For starters it's not a coup.

Then all the other things you posted from a clear propaganda site.

McHrozni

 

[TurkeysGhost]

Just waiting to see what rationalization the "interim" government gives when they decide to postpone the election, prevent the MAS from running a candidate, or otherwise improperly entrench a right wing president.

 

[Childlike Empress]

Spanish posts from alleged Bolivian tagged with "Bolivia No Hay Golpe", which is "No coup in Bolivia" was trending on Twitter out of VA. Langley VA is where the CIA spooks are headquartered.

Sloppy work from the feds.

https://twitter.com/AllezLesBoulez/status/1194085622924939265

68,000 fake twitter accounts have been detected:

[...] [head of social networks for the Spanish party Podemos] Macías Tovar pointed out that Camacho's account went from 2,000 followers to 130,000 in 15 days, 50,000 of them created in November 2019.

The same thing happened with Áñez, who, in that period, went from having 8,000 followers to 150,000, of which 40,000 are newly created accounts.

When analyzing the false accounts of both politicians, Macías Tovar counted more than 68,000 different false accounts, which have not been detected by Twitter and are still operating, although the social network prohibits the use of robots to amplify messages. [...]

 

[McHrozni]

68,000 fake twitter accounts have been detected:

Telesur is about seven steps less credible than InfoWars. It has a different slant, that's all.

McHrozni