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Dear Users... (A thread for Sysadmin, Technical Support, and Help Desk people)

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JoeMorgue said:
"My computer looks different."
"Yes I know. Your PC was upgraded from Windows 7 to Windows 10."
"But it looks all different!"
"Well.. yes. It's a new OS. All your files, folders, and programs are still there."
"BUT IT LOOKS DIFFERENT!"
"Yes... I know... it's... a.... new... operating... system. It still works the same, it just looks different."
"But now I don't know it works."
"It still works the same, it just looks different."
"Where's my start menu?"
"The exact same place it was before, it's just square instead of round."
"Okay clicking on it... OH LORDY LORDY MERCY ME THIS ALL LOOKS SO DIFFERENT!"

*Repeat for every single step of every single process of every single task, repeated for every single users.*
Click to expand...
My response goes along these lines:

Me: Do you own a car?

Them: Yes, it's a Zaphorets MS123! Nice car.

Me: Did you own a car before that one?

Them: Sure, a Zil SM321.

Me: Did it have the steering wheel in a different place? Pedals in a different order? Dashboard on the roof?

Them: .....no. Still basically the same place, still work the same. Why do you ask?

Me: So you got a newer car that looks a bit different but drives the same way. And you had no trouble with that adjustment. Which is much like what you have on your PC now.

Them: *penny drops* Oh....
 
JoeMorgue said:
"My computer looks different."
"Yes I know. Your PC was upgraded from Windows 7 to Windows 10."
"But it looks all different!"
"Well.. yes. It's a new OS. All your files, folders, and programs are still there."
"BUT IT LOOKS DIFFERENT!"
"Yes... I know... it's... a.... new... operating... system. It still works the same, it just looks different."
"But now I don't know it works."
"It still works the same, it just looks different."
"Where's my start menu?"
"The exact same place it was before, it's just square instead of round."
"Okay clicking on it... OH LORDY LORDY MERCY ME THIS ALL LOOKS SO DIFFERENT!"

*Repeat for every single step of every single process of every single task, repeated for every single users.*
Click to expand...

Someone is channeling my brain. I just "upgraded" to a new Win 10 computer mostly because my Win 7 machine was g e t t i n g r e a l l y s l o w. The first thing I Googled was "How to make your Windows 10 computer look like Windows 7". Amusingly enough, my 7 machine has seen the writing on the wall and decided to speed up! :o
 
Gord_in_Toronto said:
Someone is channeling my brain. I just "upgraded" to a new Win 10 computer mostly because my Win 7 machine was g e t t i n g r e a l l y s l o w. The first thing I Googled was "How to make your Windows 10 computer look like Windows 7". Amusingly enough, my 7 machine has seen the writing on the wall and decided to speed up! :o
Click to expand...

My Windows 10 computer is running like a charm.


I put Linux on it :p
 
Blue Mountain said:
My Windows 10 computer is running like a charm.


I put Linux on it :p
Click to expand...


My Win 10 machines have always run just fine.

But if you think the people complaining about switching from Win7 to 8 or 10 have been bitching a lot, just imagine if they had had to switch to Linux.

The ones with the background, knowledge, and experience to switch to Linux with equanimity are, for the most part, not the ones who have been complaining about Windows upgrades.
 
quadraginta said:
My Win 10 machines have always run just fine.

But if you think the people complaining about switching from Win7 to 8 or 10 have been bitching a lot, just imagine if they had had to switch to Linux.

The ones with the background, knowledge, and experience to switch to Linux with equanimity are, for the most part, not the ones who have been complaining about Windows upgrades.
Click to expand...

Don't hit me with a Linux stick. In 1982 I managed the conversion of a geographical mapping system from UNIX Version 7 to UNIX System III (don't even ask!). And, simultaneously, from a DEC PDP-11/45 to a Perkin-Elmer 3220. And from 16-bit to 32-bit hardware.

The best OS of all time is, of course, OS/2. I'll let you know when Microsoft eventually catches up.

;)
 
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Gord_in_Toronto said:
Don't hit me with a Linux stick. In 1982 I managed the conversion of a geographical mapping system from UNIX Version 7 to UNIX System III (don't even ask!). And, simultaneously, from a DEC PDP-11/45 to a Perkin-Elmer 3220. And from 16-bit to 32-bit hardware.

The best OS of all time is, of course, OS/2. I'll let you know when Microsoft eventually catches up.

;)
Click to expand...


It isn't anything I have against any of the *IXs or *Uxs. I had MINIX running on my first 8088 PC clone, just to see it happen. That was on a two floppy drive system before I could afford a hard drive.

All I was pointing out is that for the average user who bitches about the complexities of upgrading their Win OS, the switch to Linux stuff isn't going to be much better for them.
 
Gord_in_Toronto said:
Don't hit me with a Linux stick. In 1982 I managed the conversion of a geographical mapping system from UNIX Version 7 to UNIX System III (don't even ask!). And, simultaneously, from a DEC PDP-11/45 to a Perkin-Elmer 3220. And from 16-bit to 32-bit hardware.

The best OS of all time is, of course, OS/2. I'll let you know when Microsoft eventually catches up.

;)
Click to expand...

I have an os/2 iso somewhere and a laptop sitting idle. Hmmm
 
quadraginta said:
My Win 10 machines have always run just fine.

But if you think the people complaining about switching from Win7 to 8 or 10 have been bitching a lot, just imagine if they had had to switch to Linux.

The ones with the background, knowledge, and experience to switch to Linux with equanimity are, for the most part, not the ones who have been complaining about Windows upgrades.
Click to expand...

Exactly. I've dabbled with Linux for 25 years or so (and UNIX variants for longer). It's only fairly recently that distros have emerged that you could give to a computer novice to use with the same confidence as a Windows release. Linux developers like working on things like the kernel and compilers, they don't seem to like producing a robust graphical interface that a non-expert can use, and a system that doesn't need active management to keep it up-to-date, and without log files filling up, etc.

It was bad enough sometimes supporting Linux-based servers, with users that were supposed to be technically competent, it would have been a nightmare with end users on a Linux desktop.
 
quadraginta said:
It isn't anything I have against any of the *IXs or *Uxs. I had MINIX running on my first 8088 PC clone, just to see it happen. That was on a two floppy drive system before I could afford a hard drive.

All I was pointing out is that for the average user who bitches about the complexities of upgrading their Win OS, the switch to Linux stuff isn't going to be much better for them.
Click to expand...

I didn't really think your post was directed at me. ;)

I just wanted to establish I had a modicum of right to complain.

At one point in history Microsoft was very heavily in to UNIX via a variant called XENIX. I used this on what, ISTR was a 286-based PC-AT for a project for a client where we evaluated Ethernet against Token Ring.

:w2:
 
zooterkin said:
Exactly. I've dabbled with Linux for 25 years or so (and UNIX variants for longer). It's only fairly recently that distros have emerged that you could give to a computer novice to use with the same confidence as a Windows release. Linux developers like working on things like the kernel and compilers, they don't seem to like producing a robust graphical interface that a non-expert can use, and a system that doesn't need active management to keep it up-to-date, and without log files filling up, etc.

It was bad enough sometimes supporting Linux-based servers, with users that were supposed to be technically competent, it would have been a nightmare with end users on a Linux desktop.
Click to expand...

One of the biggest problems herding Unix programmers is that they all want to modify everything all the time. Trying to get a stable system requires a huge whip.
 
Gord_in_Toronto said:
Would you believe that OS/2 "development" continues? As much as possible with a user base measured I would guess in the hundreds and no access to the base code as a result of the unresolved feud between IBM and Microsoft.

See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ArcaOS
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Interesting. Brad Wardell wanted to get IBM to allow him to maintain a consumer version of OS/2 but IBM claimed they couldn't generate a part number. Odd considering how IBM Greenock generated part nos for PCs they built out of whatever was lying around the plant.
 
quadraginta said:
It isn't anything I have against any of the *IXs or *Uxs. I had MINIX running on my first 8088 PC clone, just to see it happen. That was on a two floppy drive system before I could afford a hard drive.

All I was pointing out is that for the average user who bitches about the complexities of upgrading their Win OS, the switch to Linux stuff isn't going to be much better for them.
Click to expand...
For sure. However, novices on Windows systems, if they're not really familiar with computers or who refuse to learn, are just as lost on a Windows system as they would be with KDE or Gnome.

zooterkin said:
Exactly. I've dabbled with Linux for 25 years or so (and UNIX variants for longer). It's only fairly recently that distros have emerged that you could give to a computer novice to use with the same confidence as a Windows release. Linux developers like working on things like the kernel and compilers, they don't seem to like producing a robust graphical interface that a non-expert can use, and a system that doesn't need active management to keep it up-to-date, and without log files filling up, etc.
Click to expand...
I find KDE to to be very decent. Sometimes I think Gnome would be very useful for novices because it seems to be the epitome of "perfection is achieved not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away."

There's also the adage, "The only intuitive interface is the nipple. Everything else is learned."

Log files filling up can be a problem. Fortunately distributions these days usually have well-defined logrotate configurations for their packages.

It was bad enough sometimes supporting Linux-based servers, with users that were supposed to be technically competent, it would have been a nightmare with end users on a Linux desktop.
Click to expand...

Incompetent users are the bane of all support people, regardless of the operating system they're using. I dare suspect if the entirety of the user interface was one button labelled ON and another OFF, some users would find a way to screw it up. And others would have a fit if the arrangement switched from vertical to horizontal during a update.

Gord_in_Toronto said:
One of the biggest problems herding Unix programmers is that they all want to modify everything all the time. Trying to get a stable system requires a huge whip.
Click to expand...

Yeah, Linux programmers as a whole tend to have a bad case of OS/NIH (that is, "Oh, shiny!" and "Not invented here.") One interesting thing about Windows is how much of its core functionality originated with XP and has carried on since. The user interface has changed, at times dramatically. For example, Microsoft is moving away from the Control Panel in favour of Settings.
 
Just helped a local store with a problem with an old Nexus 7 table. They use it for scanning and stock checking. It was seemingly not charging and wouldn't power on. I remembered reading about thisp bug years ago, quick search on Google for a solution literally "nexus 7 won't power on". Second, expanded link had the solution so didn't even need to go to the website itself.

Tried it and the Nexus started up.

Then she said "can you write that down", I said just type it into Google, 'oh I can never follow that I'm not (Joe have you had your blood pressure tablet and tranquilizer..) a technical person".

The solution was literally to press and hold the power and volume down until a menu appears, let go and then press the power button again.

Because I am such a nice person I started to write this down... and I kid you not I got "What's the power button?"

What is astonishing is that she then got her iphone out, took a picture of what I'd written down, then shared that picture via her WhatsApp group and posted a picture on I assume the store's Instagram of the working tablet....
 
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