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House Impeachment Inquiry

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Ziggurat said:
A lack of decorum doesn't constitute witness intimidation.
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So? Trump throws feces like the orangutan he is at the proceeding and you're upset at Schiff maybe being a little hyperbolic.

Ziggurat said:
That has absolutely nothing to do with my claim.
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As has been pointed out there were breaks. But frankly, I DON'T CARE! Trump needs to shut the **** up and start acting Presidential as opposed to like some wise guy or Joe McCarthy. Has he no decency? Do you really think POTUS should treat anyone the way he does?

What I do care about is the content of her testimony and what it shows is just how much a scumbag your President is. The turd of the century. A bully and a coward. I'm ashamed he's the President.
 
Ziggurat said:
A lack of decorum doesn't constitute witness intimidation.
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While its a stretch to call it witness intimidation w. r. t. Amb. Yovanovich (since she was testifying at the time and could not have known what Trump said), a case could certainly be made that his actions might be an attempt to intimidate other witnesses who are yet to testify, or those who might be thinking about coming forward themselves... a case of

"If you come forward and speak against me, you can expect the same treatment as Yovanivich."

You might have to prove intent.
 
Weird... I heard elsewhere about the latest round of desperate ridiculous "defense" the Republican echo machine was relaying among its obedient zombiebots, then came here and found someone loyally reciting precisely the foretold script... not even the slightest pretense at having any independent thought.

This situation is teaching me a new principle: the correlation between how thoroughly, unmistakably, and malevolently guilty a cult leader is, and how narrow and restricted the point-for-point lockstep moves of his defenders are. When there's just no way to come up with a serious actual defense to put in your own words, there's no point in bothering to try to think about it, so droning out a standard uniform fed line, no matter how utterly inane it is, is all you've got.
 
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I wish that Schiff would allow Hunter to testify just to shut up the Republicans and take away their talking points.
 
PhantomWolf said:
I wish that Schiff would allow Hunter to testify just to shut up the Republicans and take away their talking points.
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Here's a brief history of giving Republicans what they ask for recently.

GOP: Where's Obama's birth certificate?

Obama: Here.

GOP: Aha! This is the short version! This proves he's a lying Kenyan Muslim!

Obama: Here's the long form.

GOP: **Never concedes, still maintains conspiracy theories**

GOP: Where's Liz Warren's DNA test?

Liz: Here's the test you aksed for that shows exactly what my family history claimed.

GOP: Aha! That proves you're a liar and you're the real racist.

GOP: What's up with these secret hearings? Hold a vote and make them public. This is illegitimate!

Dems: **Holds vote and starts public hearings**

GOP: ******** they're doing now.

The lesson? You'd have to be dumb or not paying attention to think that giving the GOP what they ask for would shut them up.
 
PhantomWolf said:
I wish that Schiff would allow Hunter to testify just to shut up the Republicans and take away their talking points.
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I'm glad he isn't putting up with their ****. They'll get their talking points in no matter what including 'boo hoo, it isn't fair'.

Anyone remember when the Republicans shut the Democrats out? And when they shut off the power to a Democratic room trying to shut a meeting down?

Hard to find those specific news reports among all the rest:
House Republicans block Democrats' request for Trump-Putin ...
https://www.axios.com/trump-putin-m...ion-50306ae6-a94b-4b9b-aa12-1cecff89b45b.html
Anonymous View
Sep 13, 2018 ... House Foreign Affairs Committee Republicans have rejected Democrats' request that the State Department turn over documents that would ...

Republicans block Democrats' bid to see Treasury files on Trump ...
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-russia-treasury-idUSKBN1AA2D7
Anonymous View
Jul 25, 2017 ... WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. House Republicans on Tuesday shot down a legislative effort by Democrats to obtain Treasury Department ...

House Republicans block Democrats' pursuit of Trump's tax returns ...
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/house-republicans-block-democrats-pursuit-of-trumps-tax-returns
Anonymous View
Feb 28, 2017 ... Republicans on Monday blocked Democrats' attempt to obtain President Trump's tax returns. House Republicans won a procedural vote, ...

GOP blocks disaster bill again - Washington Times
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/may/28/gop-blocks-disaster-bill-again/
Anonymous View
May 28, 2019 ... Republicans block Democrats' second attempt to pass $19 billion disaster bill. Follow Us. Search. Search Keyword: ...

Senate Republicans block Democrats from forcing vote on Child ...
https://www.nydailynews.com/news/po...hing-vote-child-victims-act-article-1.2647345
Anonymous View
May 23, 2016 ... They could have done the right thing - but instead Senate Republicans on Monday chose to block a push to help victims of child sex abuse.

Senate Republicans block Democrats' paycheck fairness bill - Los ...
https://www.latimes.com/politics/la...-senate-paycheck-fairness-20140409-story.html
Anonymous View
Apr 9, 2014 ... Senate Republicans block Democrats' paycheck fairness bill. Sen. Barbara Mikulski (D-Md.), the longest-serving woman in Congress, said it ...

Republicans Are Trying to Get 127 Democrats Thrown Off the Ballot ...
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2018/03/texas-republicans-block-democrats-from-ballot-dallas/
Anonymous View
Mar 5, 2018 ... In what Democrats call Republicans' latest attempt to stymie a potential blue wave in Texas, the Dallas County Republican Party is trying to ...
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Cavemonster said:
The lesson? You'd have to be dumb or not paying attention to think that giving the GOP what they ask for would shut them up.
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It would take away their talking point, it's hard to claim that they haven't been able to ask him questions id they have been and it turned out to be a damp squib we know it would be.

Skeptic Ginger said:
I'm glad he isn't putting up with their ****. They'll get their talking points in no matter what including 'boo hoo, it isn't fair'.

Anyone remember when the Republicans shut the Democrats out? And when they shut off the power to a Democratic room trying to shut a meeting down?

Hard to find those specific news reports among all the rest:
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So the Dems should play tit for tat? I think they need toi be bigger then that and let the Repubs show off their hypocrisy as they did when they voted against the very things they had been screaming for during the closed door testimonies.
 
Cain said:
The Democrats' case just completely fell apart -- and all thanks to their own witness. According to aide David Holmes' alleged statement via Fake News: https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/15/politics/holmes-testimony-sondland-call/index.html

Here's what he overheard on that now-notrious cell-phone call between Sondland and the President:

Sondland: [Zelensky] loves your ass!
Trump: So, he's gonna do the investigation?
Sondland: He's gonna do it... [He will do] anything you ask him to.

Boom! Zelensky did the investigation because he loves Trump's ass! Not because of "bribery" or "extortion." Liberals just can't understand because they're intrinsically hateful creatures. True love is the kind of love Donald Trump has for Donald Trump. And other people have for Donald Trump.
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The Democrats' case doesn't hinge on 3 or 4 words, as much as Trump would like it to.
 
Giordano said:
Ah, but they are quite intimidating: the President of the USA personally attacking you and your career? Seeking to demean and humiliate you? And these tweets of Trump inevitably result in a mass of often vicious on line attacks by his supporters that include threats of violence. I doubt you would want to be a recipient. IMO these tweets are disgusting and dangerous.

Now, does this fulfill the legal definition of witness intimidation? Well, they skate the edge but are probably not persecutable according to this:
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/15/us/politics/trump-witness-intimidation.html
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I think trump's behavior is worthy of "throwing the book" (the whole book of laws) at him at this point:

throw the book at (one) (redirected from throw the book at him)
throw the book at (one)
1. To apply all possible criminal charges to a lawbreaker; to impose the maximum possible punishment or jail sentence against a convicted criminal.
After his third offense, the judge threw the book at the criminal, making parole all but an impossibility.
2. To punish or reprimand someone as severely as possible.
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throw the book at someone
Fig. to charge or convict someone with as many crimes as is possible. I made the police officer angry, so he took me to the station and threw the book at me. The judge threatened to throw the book at me if I didn't stop insulting the police officer.
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I think Trump's engaged in enough demonstrably, undeniably illegal behavior...and not just that, but he often does it in this open, gloating way to try to show how immune to law he is, that it would be negligent for the Dems to NOT go "Okay. Fine. Have it your way. We can do it like that." with his **** at this point.
 
smartcooky said:
While its a stretch to call it witness intimidation w. r. t. Amb. Yovanovich (since she was testifying at the time and could not have known what Trump said), a case could certainly be made that his actions might be an attempt to intimidate other witnesses who are yet to testify, or those who might be thinking about coming forward themselves... a case of

"If you come forward and speak against me, you can expect the same treatment as Yovanivich."

You might have to prove intent.
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Exactly. And let's be honest. Trump is sending a signal to the troops. This is what Trump does. He wants others to take ball. His words are amplified by the nutters.

It's ok though. Trump has committed lots of other crimes.
 
PhantomWolf said:
It would take away their talking point, it's hard to claim that they haven't been able to ask him questions id they have been and it turned out to be a damp squib we know it would be.
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Their talking points have never hinged on being rational.

The crowd of Republicans storming the "secret depositions" included committee members who were invited to be there.

They have no problem petulently demanding things they've already been given. They have no issue pushing talking points that have been thoroughly and publicly debunked. Reality is never an impediment to their BS.

Did anything Obama provided take away their "secret kenyan" talking point? No. Rational people never believed it for a second. Cynical "conservatives" never cared if it was true. Cultists never stopped believing it regardless of what they were provided.

Rinse and repeat for Warren's blood test and every single thing Republicans have asked for.

No human being with a functioning brainstem is actually on the fence here. People who believe at this point that anything Hunter Biden has to say is relevant to whether Trump committed an impeachable offense are beyond reaching.
 
PhantomWolf said:
It would take away their talking point, it's hard to claim that they haven't been able to ask him questions id they have been and it turned out to be a damp squib we know it would be.
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It really and truly doesn't work like that with them, though.

They'll keep on lying and emphasizing how the dems tried to "illegally shield" "The Biden Crime Family" (or whatever other stupid nickname they'll come up with,) and then quote mine anything that came of the testimony to further inflame their basically the same talking points. When it comes to getting their base to cheer for transparently in your face horse-crap, they're really good at what they do.
 
Cavemonster said:
Their talking points have never hinged on being rational.

The crowd of Republicans storming the "secret depositions" included committee members who were invited to be there.

They have no problem petulently demanding things they've already been given. They have no issue pushing talking points that have been thoroughly and publicly debunked. Reality is never an impediment to their BS.

Did anything Obama provided take away their "secret kenyan" talking point? No. Rational people never believed it for a second. Cynical "conservatives" never cared if it was true. Cultists never stopped believing it regardless of what they were provided.

Rinse and repeat for Warren's blood test and every single thing Republicans have asked for.

No human being with a functioning brainstem is actually on the fence here. People who believe at this point that anything Hunter Biden has to say is relevant to whether Trump committed an impeachable offense are beyond reaching.
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Well said. :thumbsup::thumbsup:

The Republicans will just move the goalposts. This was never about halting corruption abroad AND EVERYONE KNOWS IT. This was about damaging a political opponent. Anyone that suggests otherwise is a liar.
 
Republicans are in free-fall and they will cling desperately to anything that will slow their fall or, even better, pull the Democrats down with them.
 
PhantomWolf said:
It would take away their talking point, it's hard to claim that they haven't been able to ask him questions id they have been and it turned out to be a damp squib we know it would be.

So the Dems should play tit for tat? I think they need toi be bigger then that and let the Repubs show off their hypocrisy as they did when they voted against the very things they had been screaming for during the closed door testimonies.
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Not what I meant. I meant they got nothing to complain about the Democrats. But like everything else they do, it does not matter. They complained about secret hearings, they complained about public hearings. They put on a big show pretending Republicans were excluded when they weren't. Trump continues to whine he can't have his attorney there when there is a GOP attorney there with 45 minutes time to question the witness.

Don't know if you noticed but the GOP attorney really had very little to ask. Strip away the BS talking points and the Republicans have nothing.

Right away Nunes wanted to skip the attorney and go straight to letting a number of Republicans get their pre-planned talking points in. Schiff put his foot down to stop it. That was the right thing to do.

What is the point in using kid gloves or trying not to offend them or not giving them a reason to whine?

There is no point. They'll walk all over Schiff if he caves. They'll get their talking points in no matter what.

Schiff's calm, not arguing and not putting up with their ****. That's how you handle out of control kids. You don't bargain with them.
 
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