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House Impeachment Inquiry

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I've been mulling this over, and you make a valid point, although I think you perhaps overestimate the skills of those involved. However, I acknowledge that this is a personal opinion, and not really verifiable. I suppose, then , that I'm really questioning the value of a whole system and culture that ends up in a place where this kind of unfocused and vitriolic communication is 'what works' and what is important. It just makes me sad.

I'm not sure it even had the desired effect over 50% of the time.

I'd bet money that it struck a lot of average Republicans as inauthentic. It was just so overplayed. It was low-quality PR, which can be counterproductive.

eta: I'm with you on the sadness, but it is what it is, I guess. :(
 
Your first paragraph is just restating what I said ....

Sorry. I quoted too much of your message when I replied earlier. It was just the first line of the quote that was wrong. You said "He used his office to fire the guy [improperly] investigating it [Bursima] for corruption." There was no guy investigating Burisma.

The US wanted "the guy" out because he wasn't fighting corruption. So, if Hunter Biden or Burisma were doing anything wrong, Joe Biden was actually helping to do something against their interests by encouraging Ukraine to do more to fight corruption
 
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There was no guy investigating Burisma.

Sorkin DID have an investigation into Bursima open. He was just dragging his a$$ about it in a way that implied he wasn't serious.

So, if Hunter Biden or Burisma were doing anything wrong, Joe Biden was actually helping to do something against their interests by encouraging Ukraine to do more to fight corruption

Absolutely.
 
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Sorkin DID have an investigation into Bursima open. He was just dragging his a$$ about it in a way that implied he wasn't serious.

Oh, I misunderstood what you meant by "improperly." Sorry. I see now how it could mean something like "ineffectively" which is correct.
 
Your first paragraph is just restating what I said (I'm agreeing that Biden did nothing wrong) and for the second, of course it was a hypothetical, and having to recuse yourself is a form of having tied hands.

This is off-topic here. Take it to the 2020 candidates' thread.
 
Well, one of the reasons I've been talking about how maybe there should be an addition to the law addressing potential conflicts of interest and adult children is that I talk to a lot of actual republicans on facebook in local political groups.

One of the core principals of effective, persuasive communication is that, when you're positive you're overall right, you should always scour the opposite side's arguments for places where they at least kind of have a point. And as counter-intuitive as it is, you should spend some time validating them on those thing. It's a necessary step to getting them to open their mind to what you think and why, so they can become curious about if maybe you are right on something.

The average Republican right now really, actually believes the only reason Trump called the prez of Ukraine to ask him to investigate Biden is because surely there was something illegal about Joe Biden firing the guy who was investigating his son's boss. Showing them that, nope, even if Joe had done that to protect Hunter, it would have been sleazy, but legal (and it really does seem crazy that it would have been legal,) is a crucial part of demonstrating that "investigating corruption" is obviously just a pretense, a demonstrably false pretense, for acquiring anti-Biden headlines and potential opposition research material (which is a foreign contribution).

Then you show them that there was a strong international consensus that Sorkin needed to be removed, and that Joe was actually throwing his son under the bus, if anything, by getting the guy fired. So that whole line of argument is even more fallacious.

This is what's been kinda working for me. YMMV. I have a few of them transitioned from convinced the impeachment is obviously a "sham," to having at least now read the Ukraine transcript, and curious to see what Trump's counter-arguments will be.

I think some posters may need to read this again to better understand your posts over the last few days. Thanks for painting the full picture for those who couldn't put the pieces together on their own.

Also, why are you such a rabid Trump supporter? :)
 
Well, one of the reasons I've been talking about how maybe there should be an addition to the law addressing potential conflicts of interest and adult children is that I talk to a lot of actual republicans on facebook in local political groups.
So start a new thread. Why do you insist in derailing this thread over something that didn't happen?


The average Republican right now really, actually believes the only reason Trump called the prez of Ukraine to ask him to investigate Biden is because surely there was something illegal about Joe Biden firing the guy who was investigating his son's boss. Showing them that, nope, even if Joe had done that to protect Hunter, it would have been sleazy, but legal (and it really does seem crazy that it would have been legal,) is a crucial part of demonstrating that "investigating corruption" is obviously just a pretense, a demonstrably false pretense, for acquiring anti-Biden headlines and potential opposition research material (which is a foreign contribution).
Who here, even among our resident right wingers, is arguing Trump's actions were justified?

Then you show them that there was a strong international consensus that Sorkin needed to be removed, and that Joe was actually throwing his son under the bus, if anything, by getting the guy fired. So that whole line of argument is even more fallacious.

This is what's been kinda working for me. YMMV. I have a few of them transitioned from convinced the impeachment is obviously a "sham," to having at least now read the Ukraine transcript, and curious to see what Trump's counter-arguments will be.
So how does your sidetrack about changing a conflict of interest law have anything to do with the impeachment?
 
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Sorry. I quoted too much of your message when I replied earlier. It was just the first line of the quote that was wrong. You said "He used his office to fire the guy [improperly] investigating it [Bursima] for corruption." There was no guy investigating Burisma.

The US wanted "the guy" out because he wasn't fighting corruption. So, if Hunter Biden or Burisma were doing anything wrong, Joe Biden was actually helping to do something against their interests by encouraging Ukraine to do more to fight corruption
This ^
 
I already raised Kushner in a previous post. My comments were about Hunter Biden, not the Trump kids.

I agree that nepotism in this administration is a shame. That is irrelevant to my point.

If, as others have suggested, Biden was well qualified, then my premise is false.

For a board of directors the name is the qualification for most of the board.
Sure, a handful of board-members are experts in the relevant industry, but names are also needed.

I’m pretty sure the NRA didn’t hire Ted Nugent because of his nuanced understanding of Constitutional law and social issues.
 
I think some posters may need to read this again to better understand your posts over the last few days. Thanks for painting the full picture for those who couldn't put the pieces together on their own.

Also, why are you such a rabid Trump supporter? :)
That is not the post which is a problem, that is the scramble to revise the post that was.

Yes, he did.

Joe Biden had the prosecutor investigating corruption in the company Hunter worked for fired. It was a (legal) conflict of interest, even though Biden was acting in accordance with a strong international consensus that the prosecutor was corrupt and needed to be fired.

If it had been Joe Biden's wife instead of son working for the company, it would have been blatantly illegal (and I'm sure some family lawyer would have prevented her from even accepting the gig in the first place for that reason.)

He did the right thing.
He used his office to fire the guy [improperly] investigating it [Bursima] for corruption.
He had two interests which were in conflict. His loyalty to his son, and his loyalty to his oath of office. He had a conflict of interest, and chose the right path. His hands would have been legally tied from doing anything at all either way if it had been his wife and not his son on the board, though.

Are we agreed?
Biden used his office to fire the prosecutor slow walking the investigation, not the prosecutor investigating Burisma.
This is the error.
 
Show some intellectual honesty and admit that you have.
What error?

This is super weird. You snipped a teeny tiny part of something I said several posts back and replied with something nonsensical, so I just ignored you, because that's annoying.

I need you to explain what error you're referring to.
 
What error?

This is super weird. You snipped a teeny tiny part of something I said several posts back and replied with something nonsensical, so I just ignored you, because that's annoying.

I need you to explain what error you're referring to.

The error's been pointed out to you multiple times by many posters, so your pretense of not being aware of it is not very credible.
 
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