Cont: Trans Women are not Women II: The Bath Of Khan

[theprestige]

For the way some of you guys think of things, I can understand seeing most of this as not transphobic with only a little bending and hem-haw required. But stuff like post #941? I don’t see how y’all can say that’s fine unless you think Rolfe is talking exclusively about some tiny minority of people who she thinks have snuck under the trans umbrella. And I don’t get the impression she thinks that way at all.

I do.

The way I read Rolfe's argument, the entire thesis is that if we institute a policy of self-identification for access to womens' safe spaces, this will be a substantial loosening of social restrictions that currently work to preserve the safety of those spaces. Even a tiny number of abusive men sneaking in under such a policy will have the effect of destroying those spaces.

Rolfe's argument that transwomen are not women is essentially an argument against adopting such a policy. It's not an anti-trans argument. It's an argument against loosening the definition to the point where abusive men can more easily exploit it to indulge their own urges at the expense of women.

 

[Lithrael]

Eeeegh. OK. I disagree but at least I see what you’re saying.

 

[theprestige]

Eeeegh. OK. I disagree but at least I see what you’re saying.

Disagree that it's a valid concern?

Disagree with Rolfe's argument against it?

Disagree that this is what Rolfe's argument is actually about?

 

[Meadmaker]

All of those concerns apply equally to people of both sexes so segregation according to sex wouldn't help to avoid them.

If we knew of one of the girls who had a transmissible disease, it would make sense to keep her separate from the others, for instance. But not knowing that any of them do, I'm not sure what steps could be taken to avoid that particular harm, except perhaps all members of the group having their own separate rooms.

Ok, but we're not talking about a transmittable disease and making that your analogy is deeply troubling.

Something that drives me batty on this forum.

Poster A brings something up.
Poster B responds to it.
Poster C informs poster B that he is troubled/disturbed/angry/offended that poster B brought that thing up.

 

[Delphic Oracle]

Something that drives me batty on this forum.

Poster A brings something up.
Poster B responds to it.
Poster C informs poster B that he is troubled/disturbed/angry/offended that poster B brought that thing up.

I will admit to missing the right target.

Something else that happens on this forum is finding a way to be upset about the way a statement was entered into the conversation, but quietly never discussing the statement's substance.

 

[cullennz]

I will admit to missing the right target.

Something else that happens on this forum is finding a way to be upset about the way a statement was entered into the conversation, but quietly never discussing the statement's substance.

Accusing someone of comparing trans people to a disease when they haven't isn't really worthy of discussing the substance of the accusation tbf

 

[Rolfe]

Asylum in the sense of shelter, refuge. As in "political asylum".

See this article. Is anyone suggesting that the "asylum-seekers" must therefore be insane?

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/articl...-charge-fee-trump-immigration-border-proposal

 

[Meadmaker]

I will admit to missing the right target.

Something else that happens on this forum is finding a way to be upset about the way a statement was entered into the conversation, but quietly never discussing the statement's substance.

Not sure I understand. I thought Roborama discussed the substance adequately.

 

[Roboramma]

Ok, but we're not talking about a transmittable disease and making that your analogy is deeply troubling.

That was the analogy Archie used.

ETA: My response was to Archie saying (which I quoted in the post responded to):

One of the girls might be a violent bully who could hospitalise your daughter, one of them might be carrying a transmissable disease that could affect your daughters health.

To say that it's deeply troubling that I made an analogy to transmissible disease is, well, deeply troubling, because I was simply responding to Archie's analogy to transmissible disease. I shouldn't have responded?

 

[Delphic Oracle]

Well the most relevant given the subject would be STDs.

What's the procedure for housing in terms of someone HIV positive?

 

[Roboramma]

Well the most relevant given the subject would be STDs.

What's the procedure for housing in terms of someone HIV positive?

Do you acknowledge that were was nothing "deeply troubling" about my answering Archie's question?

 

[Belz...]

For the way some of you guys think of things, I can understand seeing most of this as not transphobic with only a little bending and hem-haw required.

The point is that these things are not transphobic in and of themselves. In conjuction, they might be, but since only a handful of them are trees it's hard to call the sum a forest.

Asylum in the sense of shelter, refuge. As in "political asylum".

Oh, sorry. I hadn't understood it that way. Makes sense now that you say that.

 

[p0lka]

This is the apparently oh so transphobic post #941. It's actually a fair assessment of men with AGP and the affect of allowing them to access female only spaces.

It's quite easy to tell the difference between the gender dysphoric transwomen and the AGP fetishists presenting as transwomen - offer them a bathroom/changing room separate from either the male or female spaces. The gender dysphoric transwomen will take it and the AGP ones will be raging that they don't get to strip off in front of a room full of women and girls.

In that post, did rolfe leave any room for transwomen that are not perverts or Larping?

 

[Strawberry]

In that post, did rolfe leave any room for transwomen that are not perverts or Larping?

No she didn't. Is there a reason why she should?

Edited by zooterkin: 

<SNIP>
Edited for rule 0 and rule 12.

 

[kellyb]

nevermind, misread.

 

[Delphic Oracle]

Do you acknowledge that were was nothing "deeply troubling" about my answering Archie's question?

I will for the second time admit to missing the right target.

 

[Roboramma]

I will for the second time admit to missing the right target.

Thanks.

 

[Delphic Oracle]

Since we've dealt with the horrible outrage of clicking reply on the wrong post, I'll try again:

What's the procedure for housing in terms of someone HIV positive?

 

[Hevneren]

For the benefit of Belz...everybody, some selected transnapoleophobia
...
Transwomennapoleons are delusional and not womenNapoleon.
...
Being a transwomannapoleon is ludicrous.
...
Being trans transnapoleon flies in the face of objective reality
...
Transwomennapoleons are not womenNapoleon. They are different.

Et cetera.

 

[Lithrael]

Wow! Such insight! I sure am glad you introduced this idea to the discussion, because we have certainly none of us heard it before. In this thread. Lots of times.