Greta Thunberg - brave campaigner or deeply disturbed?

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cullennz said:
Assuming she and her entourage didn't know about the other flights which it would cause.

Of which I have severe doubts is credible.
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I don't. The boat only needed two actual crew to ferry her to the United States in the first place, but yet for some reason requires five actual sailing crew to be sailed back - and the owner couldn't simply find someone locally? To me that is the part that sounds more incredible.
 
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Checkmite said:
I don't. The boat only needed two actual crew to ferry her to the United States in the first place, but yet for some reason requires five actual sailing crew to be sailed back - and the owner couldn't simply find someone locally? To me that is the part that sounds more incredible.
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That was the bit I didn't get

Links say two sailors plus Greta and her dad + film maker get it there

2 sailors fly back

5 sailors flyover to bring it back.

Not being funny, but purely from a personal judgement point of view I think the dude with the boat just took advantage for the PR.

We are talking millions in funding here and being the dude who manlily (made up another word) came to her rescue to get her to NY is a good sponsorship pitch,as you can get atm.

Not so much when the flights involved come out.

The only other thing I can think of for needing 5 is weight. Which would be odd cos she is a small chick.

Funding. Whoever sponsors it insist on 5 people.

Or safety of numbers on long journeys and taking into account shifts.

What ever it is it will probably never come out either way so not worth talking about apart from the fact the boat caused more emissions than her just getting a plane or video conferencing
 
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a_unique_person said:
They are. They burn "fuel oil", stuff that is more like year than fuel. Coming regulations will mean they have to switch to something cleaner.
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If she started a Go Fund me page to pay for the airline carbon offset option on the airlines website she would probably get about a mill' in a couple of hours.

She would be offsetting the entire airlines passengers for about a week at least.
 
arthwollipot said:
The Wired article also points out that if someone as famous as Thunberg took a cargo ship, a lot of other people might realise that it's possible and want to emulate her, and the shipping companies would race to get dedicated passenger-fitted ships into operation, and honestly, I can't see a downside to that given the emission-to-weight ratio of a ship that size. Cargo ships fitted for passengers could carry way more people than aircraft can and would be cheaper. The only downside is that they take much longer to arrive.

So yeah, maybe taking a cargo ship is a pretty good idea after all.
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The downside of more people taking up trips on cargo ships would be (from the article):
The calculations would be more complicated if more people joined Fernström Nåtby, Smith says. Shipping companies would hurry to launch dedicated passenger ships, crowded with fuel-hungry luxuries to entice customers.
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Compare this with a carbon hungry flight, but that can be packed with passengers for the flight that is under 12 hours. A cargo ship with a comparable number of passengers (or more) would be at sea for much longer, and require much more space. Admittedly, it would be less than a cruise ship, but hundreds of passengers on such a ship would need far more space for leisure and eating facilities, and associated crew to look after them.. The logistics change, and so its not so cut a dry.
 
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wobs said:
The downside of more people taking up trips on cargo ships would be (from the article):


Compare this with a carbon hungry flight, but that can be packed with passengers for the flight that is under 12 hours. A cargo ship with a comparable number of passengers (or more) would be at sea for much longer, and require much more space. Admittedly, it would be less than a cruise ship, but hundreds of passengers on such a ship would need far more space for leisure and eating facilities, and associated crew to look after them.. The logistics change, and so its not so cut a dry.
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Yup. If this idea took off, it would essentially become a low-rent cruise line industry, which would likely then require more ships to move the actual containers of merch. It's not a solution that has widespread long-term effectiveness.

The best move is don't travel that far if you don't need to. Greta, for instance, absolutely did not need to skip school and have her "y'all should check out yesterday's newspaper" tour. It is a stunt, from beginning to end. Her physical presence at the UN and elsewhere was utterly unnecessary.
 
Thermal said:
Yup. If this idea took off, it would essentially become a low-rent cruise line industry, which would likely then require more ships to move the actual containers of merch. It's not a solution that has widespread long-term effectiveness.
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I suppose you could one day catch a train:
http://www.interbering.com/North-Pole-view-to-railroads.html

And with ships getting slower, freight may go on more trains in the future.

The best move is don't travel that far if you don't need to.
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True
Greta, for instance, absolutely did not need to skip school and have her "y'all should check out yesterday's newspaper" tour. It is a stunt, from beginning to end. Her physical presence at the UN and elsewhere was utterly unnecessary.
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Untrue.
She achieved a great deal. Huge amount of publicity, her impact on Swedish habits seems to have had a measurable impact (see one of my earlier posts), she addressed those that she needed to directly, which is why she did it, but these things don't happen over night.

The conversation in the world has grown considerably as a result of this, and not just about how we can individually make a difference, but how world leaders can make a difference, in how the global economy works, in how it should not be addicted to growth. This has been one of her main messages.

As she said, VCs are great, but you have far less impact than being there.
 
wobs said:
Untrue.
She achieved a great deal. Huge amount of publicity, her impact on Swedish habits seems to have had a measurable impact (see one of my earlier posts), she addressed those that she needed to directly, which is why she did it, but these things don't happen over night.

The conversation in the world has grown considerably as a result of this, and not just about how we can individually make a difference, but how world leaders can make a difference, in how the global economy works, in how it should not be addicted to growth. This has been one of her main messages.

As she said, VCs are great, but you have far less impact than being there.
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The kind of person who would be suddenly spurned to action by Greta seems to be somewhat fickle, IMO. They missed the whole climate thing for the last couple generations, but are energized by some random kid saying nothing new? I think such a person will forget about her next week, when a Kardashian or someone 'raises awareness' on the trend of the day. I also doubt that her physical presence at the UN has shifted a single world leader's views. They are aware of the problem in much greater detail than her generic pose.
 
Thermal said:
The kind of person who would be suddenly spurned to action by Greta seems to be somewhat fickle, IMO. They missed the whole climate thing for the last couple generations, but are energized by some random kid saying nothing new? I think such a person will forget about her next week, when a Kardashian or someone 'raises awareness' on the trend of the day. I also doubt that her physical presence at the UN has shifted a single world leader's views. They are aware of the problem in much greater detail than her generic pose.
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Indeed. And what are we to make of someone who is a vehement Greta promoter, but also indulges in luxury air travel on a regular basis?
 
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Thermal said:
The kind of person who would be suddenly spurned to action by Greta seems to be somewhat fickle, IMO. They missed the whole climate thing for the last couple generations, but are energized by some random kid saying nothing new? I think such a person will forget about her next week, when a Kardashian or someone 'raises awareness' on the trend of the day. I also doubt that her physical presence at the UN has shifted a single world leader's views. They are aware of the problem in much greater detail than her generic pose.
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You seem to be assuming that everyone is 40 or 50 years old. Thunberg is attracting a large number of younger people and teenagers who are learning the details and implications of climate change for the first time. These young people are much more likely to accept this info from one of their own than someone old enough to be their grandfather.
 
Thermal said:
The kind of person who would be suddenly spurned to action by Greta seems to be somewhat fickle, IMO. They missed the whole climate thing for the last couple generations, but are energized by some random kid saying nothing new? I think such a person will forget about her next week, when a Kardashian or someone 'raises awareness' on the trend of the day. I also doubt that her physical presence at the UN has shifted a single world leader's views. They are aware of the problem in much greater detail than her generic pose.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greta_Thunberg#"The_Greta_effect"
Its not just few kids doing a school strike.
 
Steve said:
You seem to be assuming that everyone is 40 or 50 years old. Thunberg is attracting a large number of younger people and teenagers who are learning the details and implications of climate change for the first time. These young people are much more likely to accept this info from one of their own than someone old enough to be their grandfather.
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This can set the mold, sort of. If she got to these kids before denialists did, then the denialist message is less likely to take root.

To add to that, kids can have an impact on their parents and grandparents. This can extend to energy use. Parents want to be role models for their kids, but it can be a two way street where sometimes the kids show the parents what kind of role models they want them to be.

She's clearly having an impact. How durable that impact may be remains to be seen. But for now, she's having an impact.
 
Steve said:
You seem to be assuming that everyone is 40 or 50 years old. Thunberg is attracting a large number of younger people and teenagers who are learning the details and implications of climate change for the first time. These young people are much more likely to accept this info from one of their own than someone old enough to be their grandfather.
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And from whom exactly did Greta get this information? Graybeards, who put in years of research. Or are you assuming the Teenybopper Climate Council is her source of this 'new' research?

If kids are convinced that other children are the ones with the answers ( providing no actual work or insight of their own), we do indeed have a knucklehead problem in the up and coming generation.
 
Steve said:
You seem to be assuming that everyone is 40 or 50 years old. Thunberg is attracting a large number of younger people and teenagers who are learning the details and implications of climate change for the first time. These young people are much more likely to accept this info from one of their own than someone old enough to be their grandfather.
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And the vast majority of these kids will leave school, get jobs and money. Buy a house, slogging their **** off to pay the subsequent bills, knock out loads of carbon spewing kids, work out you can use the money to go on a plane to a holiday for the whole family, and Greta becomes a memory from childhood years ago, in a viral video, before they watched that funny cat one.
 
Thermal said:
And from whom exactly did Greta get this information? Graybeards, who put in years of research. Or are you assuming the Teenybopper Climate Council is her source of this 'new' research?

If kids are convinced that other children are the ones with the answers ( providing no actual work or insight of their own), we do indeed have a knucklehead problem in the up and coming generation.
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There is indeed a knucklehead problem with many world leaders and deniers. Not kids though.
 
theprestige said:
Indeed. And what are we to make of someone who is a vehement Greta promoter, but also indulges in luxury air travel on a regular basis?
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I said this earlier in this thread, but for those with short attention spans, the idea that you have to live off the grid, cycle everywhere and grow your own food before being allowed to comment on climate change is ridiculous.
 
lionking said:
I said this earlier in this thread, but for those with short attention spans, the idea that you have to live off the grid, cycle everywhere and grow your own food before being allowed to comment on climate change is ridiculous.
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Indeed

Apparently your just have to feel "guilty" about it and this negates your carbon emissions
 
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