Greta Thunberg - brave campaigner or deeply disturbed?

[cullennz]

I like the concept that if you book a seat after an airline flight is already scheduled you can pat yourself on the back for having contributed zero carbon footprint. You don't share the environment cost - the moral burden is exclusively on those who booked earlier and filled the flight sufficiently to have the airline commit to it. Fascinating to contemplate! What if some of the early bookers cancel and now your booking is what helps retain the scheduled flight? Have you been sucked into the guilty?

Beyond these philosophical musings one's weight does require extra fuel to fly it. Obviously depends on the plane, etc. but average is 30 to 40 guilty liters per 1000 kilometers. Sorry!

I see no moral burden in flying in a plane.

At least not until most people stop using them

Even if a plane ends up one end with 3 people on it and the rest cancel due to ethics, the same plane is still scheduled to fly back with a full load from the country with less idiots, and can't cancel

 

[Childlike Empress]

Yes, they sort of.

Thanks for the explanation. I always tend to underestimate the (real) virtues of capitalism. So for Greta to fly it would be more of an "If I don't guard the KZ, someone else will do" idealistic argument than I thought. In practice though, it would still make no difference.

 

[Giordano]

I see no moral burden in flying in a plane.

At least not until most people stop using them

Even if a plane ends up one end with 3 people on it and the rest cancel due to ethics, the same plane is still scheduled to fly back with a full load from the country with less idiots, and can't cancel

Ooo, yet another philosophical concept to contemplate! "It is not my fault if other people would do it if I don't." Let me think about that!

 

[qayak]

I see no moral burden in flying in a plane.

At least not until most people stop using them

Even if a plane ends up one end with 3 people on it and the rest cancel due to ethics, the same plane is still scheduled to fly back with a full load from the country with less idiots, and can't cancel

So your real argument is "I want to **** up my fair share of this planet before those stinking foreigners get a chance."

 

[Stout]

We know a crew of 5 flew over to bring the boat back and the original captain flew back.

So it was more than just her and her old man catching a stand-by (spare seats) flight to NY my quite a margin

I wouldn't doubt that whole crew transfer thing was done by private plane, after all, we are talking about the super rich. No doubt Thunberg and her entourage had some means to show she was planning on leaving the USA and wasn't entering on what amounts to a one way ticket.

There is an upside to climate change. Once the arctic sea ice is gone, Cnina will be able to ship consumer goods into Europe using a northern route which will cut shipping time down by 20%

The ice melting and exposing more land means more land is available for resource extraction, Resources like oil and gas which will greatly improve the living conditions in impoverished northern Greenland communities once China pumps buckets of money into the place.

Once climate and soil conditions improve, Greenland can start farming and actually live up to it's name. Fresh Greenland pineapples anyone ?

 

[lionking]

I wouldn't doubt that whole crew transfer thing was done by private plane, after all, we are talking about the super rich. No doubt Thunberg and her entourage had some means to show she was planning on leaving the USA and wasn't entering on what amounts to a one way ticket.

There is an upside to climate change. Once the arctic sea ice is gone, Cnina will be able to ship consumer goods into Europe using a northern route which will cut shipping time down by 20%

The ice melting and exposing more land means more land is available for resource extraction, Resources like oil and gas which will greatly improve the living conditions in impoverished northern Greenland communities once China pumps buckets of money into the place.

Once climate and soil conditions improve, Greenland can start farming and actually live up to it's name. Fresh Greenland pineapples anyone ?

Melting ice exposes more land? Do continents float?

Is this a serious comment or performance art?

 

[Stout]

Melting ice exposes more land? Do continents float?

Is this a serious comment or performance art?

OK, I'll admit to making up the bit about the pineapples but the rest of it I lifted straight out of this documentary that I watched last night.


Melting ice - the future of the Arctic

That's another DW link, like the one I posted on Kiribati a few weeks ago. Interestingly, in the one above, the producers interview an Inuit hunter/fisher who says he doesn't really care about climate change because he's already learned to adapt.

 

[cullennz]

Ooo, yet another philosophical concept to contemplate! "It is not my fault if other people would do it if I don't." Let me think about that!

How many planes didn't fly the atlantic because Greta and her dad refused to take one?

Zero

How many people flew the atlantic because Greta and her dad refused to take one?

Six

 

[cullennz]

So your real argument is "I want to **** up my fair share of this planet before those stinking foreigners get a chance."

No it isn't

My argument was I am not going to feel guilt tripped for catching a plane that was already going unless I am the one responsible for it having to fly

 

[lionking]

OK, I'll admit to making up the bit about the pineapples but the rest of it I lifted straight out of this documentary that I watched last night.


Melting ice - the future of the Arctic

That's another DW link, like the one I posted on Kiribati a few weeks ago. Interestingly, in the one above, the producers interview an Inuit hunter/fisher who says he doesn't really care about climate change because he's already learned to adapt.

Read science rather than watch YouTube videos. The Greenland ice sheet is melting rapidly.

https://cos.arizona.edu/features/how-fast-is-greenland-melting

How long it will take to melt completely is an open question requiring more research, but if it keeps up nations like Bangla Desh and countless islands will be doomed.

Oh, and “upside of climate change” is Denial 101. Thanks for clarifying your stance.

 

[Stout]

Read science rather than watch YouTube videos. The Greenland ice sheet is melting rapidly.

https://cos.arizona.edu/features/how-fast-is-greenland-melting

How long it will take to melt completely is an open question requiring more research, but if it keeps up nations like Bangla Desh and countless islands will be doomed.

Oh, and “upside of climate change” is Denial 101. Thanks for clarifying your stance.

It would be really weird if you were trying to refute a video using information that was actually given in the video. The Greenland ice sheet is melting, why yes, yes it is.

I could like to the video on Dailymotion if that would give it extra credibility. Check out the DW channel anyway, they tell interesting stories.

So a 20% shorter shipping route isn't an upside ? I'm not sure Greta Thunberg would approve of taking the long way around because your daddy did it and his daddy before him.

Climate change dinial, lol, that just desperate.

 

[lionking]

It would be really weird if you were trying to refute a video using information that was actually given in the video. The Greenland ice sheet is melting, why yes, yes it is.

I could like to the video on Dailymotion if that would give it extra credibility. Check out the DW channel anyway, they tell interesting stories.

So a 20% shorter shipping route isn't an upside ? I'm not sure Greta Thunberg would approve of taking the long way around because your daddy did it and his daddy before him.

Climate change dinial, lol, that just desperate.

I watched some of that rubbish. A better life for a handful of Inuits at the expense of millions of people in third world countries? Yeah, very fine trade off.

“Denial” is how it’s spelled. Maybe you are not a denier, you are simply using their arguments.......

 

[Stout]

I watched some of that rubbish. A better life for a handful of Inuits at the expense of millions of people in third world countries? Yeah, very fine trade off.

“Denial” is how it’s spelled. Maybe you are not a denier, you are simply using their arguments.......

OK, screw the Inuit then. Why the heck they want to live up there I'll never know. Freezing cold in the winter, hunting seals and narwhals for meat, life would be so much easier if they'd just move to the cities, go to school and get jobs in tech.

Unfortunately the denial thing really comes to the forefront when people deny that climate change is inevitable and cling to some faint hope that praying to their household Greta Thunberg shrine will somehow help to stop climate change.

If those Bangladeshis were with the program, they'd call up some Dutch engineers and ask them how it's done. I suppose they could try some weirdo publicity stunt like The Maldives did 10 years ago and hold a cabinet meeting underwater but, you can see how effective that turned out to be.

 

[Skeptical Greg]

I makes me wonder..


The expense of relocating millions of people in third world countries to higher ground now vs waiting until the water starts rising and forcing them to relocate?

Hopefully we will do what we can to mitigate the cause of rising sea levels, but since it is doubtful we can actually stop it from happening, FSM forbid we actually do anything to help those who will be most affected..

Instead, lets just keep ranting about how the deniers are denying ...

 

[lionking]

I makes me wonder..


The expense of relocating millions of people in third world countries to higher ground now vs waiting until the water starts rising and forcing them to relocate?

Hopefully we will do what we can to mitigate the cause of rising sea levels, but since it is doubtful we can actually stop it from happening, FSM forbid we actually do anything to help those who will be most affected..

Instead, lets just keep ranting about how the deniers are denying ...

Careful now. Saying “it’s too late to do anything anyway” is a form denial. Saying “it’s doubtful we can actually stop it..” is damn close to that.

Science says we can do enough to mitigate the effects of climate change if governments rise to the challenge. This is what Greta is trying to encourage.

 

[Stout]

I makes me wonder..


The expense of relocating millions of people in third world countries to higher ground now vs waiting until the water starts rising and forcing them to relocate?

Hopefully we will do what we can to mitigate the cause of rising sea levels, but since it is doubtful we can actually stop it from happening, FSM forbid we actually do anything to help those who will be most affected..

Instead, lets just keep ranting about how the deniers are denying ...

The developing nations want the developed nations to pay for climate change for sure. As to where those people who are going to be displaced by climate change are actually going to go, who knows. Sweden maybe.

 

[Orphia Nay]

No it isn't

My argument was I am not going to feel guilt tripped for catching a plane that was already going unless I am the one responsible for it having to fly

Do you fly planes for a living?

 

[Skeptical Greg]

Careful now. Saying “it’s too late to do anything anyway” is a form denial. Saying “it’s doubtful we can actually stop it..” is damn close to that.

Science says we can do enough to mitigate the effects of climate change if governments rise to the challenge. This is what Greta is trying to encourage.

You don't think it's constructive to plan for the worst?

Waiting to see what happens, and hoping for the best, seems denialist to me...

Has Greta opened up her home to any potential Bangladesh flood victims?

 

[cullennz]

Do you fly planes for a living?

No

Do you own a combustion engine car?

 

[Giordano]

OK, screw the Inuit then. Why the heck they want to live up there I'll never know. Freezing cold in the winter, hunting seals and narwhals for meat, life would be so much easier if they'd just move to the cities, go to school and get jobs in tech.

Unfortunately the denial thing really comes to the forefront when people deny that climate change is inevitable and cling to some faint hope that praying to their household Greta Thunberg shrine will somehow help to stop climate change.
If those Bangladeshis were with the program, they'd call up some Dutch engineers and ask them how it's done. I suppose they could try some weirdo publicity stunt like The Maldives did 10 years ago and hold a cabinet meeting underwater but, you can see how effective that turned out to be.

Come on, I know you recognize that although serious climate change is inevitable it will be of different extent and speed depending what we do now. Is it crazy to initiate actions so that only one leg has to be amputated vs both plus an arm? Or were you trying to make a joke all 3 paragraphs?