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The Trump Presidency: Part 18

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Regardless of how valid Trump's impeachment is (fun fact, it's super valid) the idea that Impeachment is more likely to just be another political tool moving forward isn't insane.

We've had four (as always I include Nixon's "You can't fire me I quit" in there despite it technically bla bla bla) impeachments in this country's 243 year history and if you're 45 or older 3 of them have happened in your lifetime and the last two happened in a 21 year timespan.

That's not a check in the "They aren't getting more common" side of the scoreboard.
 
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Armitage72 said:
I guessed that was his intention when he was talking about reading the transcript to the public in a televised "fireside chat". He would read a transcript that only barely resembled the real one, while claiming it was what was actually said.
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I was thinking more along the lines of the Saturday Night Live Nixon tape skit. Where they portray Nixon and Dean talking about the hush money as if they were doing a joke tape for kicks.


https://snltranscripts.jt.org/78/78tnixon.phtml
 
JoeMorgue said:
Regardless of how valid Trump's impeachment is (fun fact, it's super valid) the idea that Impeachment is more likely to just be another political tool moving forward isn't insane.

We've had four (as always I include Nixon's "You can't fire me I quit" in there despite it technically bla bla bla) impeachments in this country's 243 year history and if you're 45 or younger 3 of them have happened in your lifetime 2 in 21 years.

That's not a check in the "They aren't getting more common" side of the scoreboard.
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*older. :)
 
Belz... said:
Anyway, where do you think that this deepening divide between the two parties/sides began? The civil rights movement? Nixon? Reagan? Clinton? Bush?

It's obviously been always there, even before confederation, but it's gotten worse.
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With the unnecessary but still annoyingly needed obvious caveat that things like this almost always never have a single root cause or point in history where they happen and everything you mention is certainly a factor in it, I still pin most of... blame I guess (not exactly the right term but close) on our current situation on how we as a society and government handled the move from an manufacturing/agriculture based society and economy to a tech sector / service job based one.

A lot of people get left behind in a narrative that was all about how things where getting better and now, to paraphrase the Dark Knight Returns, in their desperation turned to man they don't fully understand and unleashed something they never meant to.

But there's also too much pride and stupidity to admit it.

A lot of people felt betrayed by their country and lot of bad people stepped up to fan the fear into flames of hatred, bitterness, and outright "Eff the system, I wanna watch it burn because everyone knows I'm not gonna get mine in the end."
 
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And in a bit more economic news:

From: https://markets.businessinsider.com...re-than-expected-trade-war-2019-11-1028656446
The Commerce Department said Monday factory goods orders fell 0.6% in September...US manufacturing slipped into a recession this year as an economic standoff between the Trump administration and China piled onto pressure in the sector...
The Commerce Department also said a measure of business investment plans, September shipments of non-defense capital goods, declined 0.6%. That figure was a steeper drop than reported last month and came after a gross domestic product report last week showed business investment fell by the most in more than three years in the third quarter.

It doesn't necessarily mean the economy as a whole will have a recession before the next election, but its certainly not a good sign.
 
Using federal authorities to try to silence critics. I'm sure there's nothing wrong with that. Justice Department targets the anonymous author of an upcoming anti-Trump book.


The Justice Department is going on the offensive against the anonymous author of "A Warning," telling them in a letter obtained by CNN Business that he or she may be violating "one or more nondisclosure agreements" by writing the anti-Trump book.
The author's publisher is rejecting the argument and saying the book will be released as scheduled.
And the author's agents are accusing the government of trying to unmask the author.
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Wasn't the consensus way back at the start that Trump's anti-leak NDAs were a load of unenforceable rubbish?
 
newyorkguy said:
The worst part of this is, in my opinion, we now have a large group of American citizens who back someone they KNOW is no good but they don't care. Trump HASN'T revived coal mining, he HASN'T brought blue-collar manufacturing jobs back to the USA, he HASN'T unveiled a healthcare system that "covers everybody and is cheaper than Obamacare," he HASN'T crafted a tax plan that favors working-class taxpayers, he HASN'T slowed illegal immigration, he HASN'T even even built the wall. But they don't care because rooting for him feels so good!

I just read a long article about Brexit, where you have the spectacle of working-class people voting for something that they pretty much know isn't going to work very well, at least not for them, but they don't care. Because voting for it feels so good!

Never thought I'd look back at the Cold War era as the good old days. :(
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Well, as one of my coworkers claimed, he knows Trump is a liar and doofus, but he's just so afraid of liberals. He actually claimed that we'd end up like Venezuela if "they" ever take power. The kool aid is so strong with this one that he prefers absolutely anything including a moronically criminal president to that RWM propaganda nightmare scenario.
 
Belz... said:
Anyway, where do you think that this deepening divide between the two parties/sides began? The civil rights movement? Nixon? Reagan? Clinton? Bush?

It's obviously been always there, even before confederation, but it's gotten worse.
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Reagan, IMO.
Beginning of the vilification of the "other side" (and a cementing of the idea of the "other side").
Post WW2 until the Eighties there seems to have been greater cohesion.
 
Belz... said:
Why do I get the feeling that every President from here on out is going to be impeached as a matter of course?
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Well... If the Republicans keep putting forward guys that brazenly break the law when they get someone in office and shamelessly impeach Democrats as a dirty political ploy to shield their guys when their guys commit crimes like crazy, it's not quite too far-fetched. "As a matter of course," though, isn't quite properly descriptive of that.

Armitage72 said:
When talk of impeachment first started, Trump said that if it happened, then in the future every President would face impeachment if their Party didn't control the House. He phrased it as a warning then. It's only more recently that he's turned it into a threat.
"If I get impeached, what's to stop it from happening again?"
vs.
"If I get impeached, we'll do it next."
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And it's just as evil and stupid as it was then.

In other things of some interest...

Yovanovitch / McKinley testimony transcripts released by House Intel. - Volker / Sondland tomorrow

Includes easy links to them and pokes at a few things in them.

Federal appeals court rejects Trump's immunity claim, orders tax returns turned over to grand jury

Things are bad when I'm actually letting out a sigh of relief at Judges actually doing their job. Trump will be appealing the unanimous decision against him, of course, by the sound of it, which means that this still isn't over, though.
 
To be blunt, I think it's pretty damn naive to even entertain the idea that next Democrat President isn't going to be at least targeted heavily for impeachment.

Even if they get both the House and the Senate the Dems aren't going to keep it for more then a few election cycles. The Republicans will be back in power in either the House, Senate, or Both before the sting of this goes away and their honor will demand some sort of retaliation. How exactly it will break down; actual impeachment, an impeachment investigation, just a lot of noise calling for it, remains to be seen but it will happen.
 
JoeMorgue said:
To be blunt, I think it's pretty damn naive to even entertain the idea that next Democrat President isn't going to be at least targeted heavily for impeachment.

Even if they get both the House and the Senate the Dems aren't going to keep it for more then a few election cycles. The Republicans will be back in power in either the House, Senate, or Both before the sting of this goes away and their honor will demand some sort of retaliation. How exactly it will break down; actual impeachment, an impeachment investigation, just a lot of noise calling for it, remains to be seen but it will happen.
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Yep there is simply no way any republican could ever see Trump as blatantly corrupt. He is the new normal for all republican politicians.
 
Aridas said:
....

Things are bad when I'm actually letting out a sigh of relief at Judges actually doing their job. Trump will be appealing the unanimous decision against him, of course, by the sound of it, which means that this still isn't over, though.
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While Trump and the Republican senate may have put many judges in power, or just more power, I don't think they'd be dimwitted enough to then basically just adjudicate against their own power. Including over him and them (senate Republications).
 
The Man said:
While Trump and the Republican senate may have put many judges in power, or just more power, I don't think they'd be dimwitted enough to then basically just adjudicate against their own power. Including over him and them (senate Republications).
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Like court orders matter anymore. They will just ignore them and face no consequence like beloved Sheriff Joe. The courts have been put in their place and need to learn that.
 
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