Greta Thunberg - brave campaigner or deeply disturbed?

[Thermal]

Ok. I have not followed how she has travelled through North America, and it seems to be undetermined how she will get to Spain. I will review any evidence you would care to provide Thunberg’s travel is high footprint.

Take an empty seat on a Trans-Atlantic flight. Almost zero new impact. Extended eating and lodging on the road? Gonna go with 'higher than zero'.

But you are not out. You have many posts here in a thread titled “Greta Thunberg, brave campaigner or deeply disturbed”.

Many? Try 9. And the first two were irrelevant jokes. My comments now are just weighing in some mild exasperation. She is neither of the two choices offered in the OP. She's an over-hyped idealist.

I have not noticed anything productive in any of these posts.

You will not note anything productive in any of my posts, thank you.

Just cheap and insulting criticisms of a young lady who is doing her own personal best to help alleviate a serious climate problem. She may be young, she may be naive, she is certainly not as knowledgeable as the scientists she is telling everybody to listen to. But she is accomplishing a hell of a lot more than anyone posting snide comments in this thread.

I do not intend to insult her. She's the consummate idealist. Great. It will be fan-freaking-tastic to see if she carries this environmental passion into adulthood, as one of my little tree-huggers has with pursuing environmental engineering in college, with a particular interest in aquaponics. I'll love to see how Greta Thunberg puts in the work towards developing practical solutions.

But the OP asks what she is now, with two options to choose from, as you so conveniently noted. I was silent for the first few dozen pages, and only weigh in for the latest couple. If she accomplishes something beyond being a media darling/target, great. More power to her. But in terms of what the OP asks, I am answering on topic.

 

[cullennz]

But why doesn’t she just do video conferencing? You know, like they do in the United Nations, Parliaments, Congress, inaugurations......

I think even someone as young as Greta realises that the best form of communication is in person and that when you don’t do it that way so much of the message is lost. It’s a pity some in this thread don’t understand how effective communication works.

This is backward logic to me.

Why does she need to get "the message" across at a climate change summit of people who already agree with "the message" and are actively working to try to alleviate things?

The only point of her being there would be to get "the message" across to the public.

Which is all watched via videos on the internet.

It doesn't make diddly squat difference to people watching a internet video speaking live to the conference or an internet video of a giant video screen of her speaking to the conference.

unless you think the people at climate change conference are thick and don't know as much about climate change as a 16 year old who refuses to go to school, and urgently needs her insight?

 

[Orphia Nay]

Sorry but that is utter tosh.

Show me with stats how people turning vegan affects the carbon output of China, the US, Russia and India

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(18)31788-4/fulltext

I've already posted this several times.

You didn't read it then.

Why should I believe you're interested in reading it?

 

[Orphia Nay]

The biggest carbon emissions on the planet are actually from concrete and construction.

The most harmful greenhouse gases are methane and nitrous oxide.

Excessive phosphorus and nitrogen application in many farmed areas on the planet cause eutrophication (algal blooms) and further climate and biodiversity change.

Lack of phosphorus in many farmed areas causes soil degradation, drought, and erosion, and carbon emissions.

Equality and sustainability is about many, many, issues that affect the way we all live in some way.

ETA Meat farming causes around 75% of the climate change effects in food supply.
Staples such as wheat, rice, and cereals cause around 33-50% of other environmental damage (E.g.biodiversity loss)
~60% of those cereals produced are grown to feed animals bred for meat consumption.

 

[Darat]

No, actual scientists and researchers know that sometimes flying can be the low-footprint option. The True Tree-Hugger may walk in their pure dedication, but will quite likely burn more resources on the long trip. Thunberg's approach without question is. In pure contradiction of her purported message.







Ok, you're right, that was uncalled for. What some posters, myself included, cannot stand is bull ****. Again, if her mission is the lowered carbon footprint, how much more is she wasting rather than jump on a flight's available seat? That's the cold math at play, that an actual advocate would factor in. She's not at actual advocate. She's all hype, no teeth. Do we not have enough of that already?



Do you think she is going to spurn a planet to action? I don't. I think she's a feel-good cat video, being championed by the self-righteous who will forget about her for the next cat video, while doing nothing.



You want to talk climate change, resource management, alternative fuels and other measures? I'm in. You want to talk about some self-righteous kid looking down her nose about a subject she knows little about and poses no solutions? I'm out.

I look forward to the evidence and calculations you used to come to your conclusions.

 

[theprestige]

Pleading for a ride to Spain now.

Stuck on the wrong side of the globe.

Maybe another 5 people can fly over again and give her a lift in a boat

https://www.cruisespecialists.com/cruise-promotion-detail.aspx?packageId=19268

Has she considered talking to a travel agent? I'm sure with a little bit of legwork, cheap passage on a freighter can be arranged.

---

On a separate note, it's not the message nor the messenger. It's the theatrics, the choir-preaching, and the fan club. There's a silliness here that Greta's boosters don't want to see. They get enraged when others point it out.

 

[Thermal]

I look forward to the evidence and calculations you used to come to your conclusions.

Aaaaaaand....what evidence and calculations would those be?

The OP asks for conclusions about Ms Thurnberg, specifically if she is deeply disturbed or a brave campaigner. I assume the OP is either requesting clairvoyance, long-distance psychoanalysis, or ...just possibly... opinions.

Can we further assume that you are not asking for evidence and calculations, and that you are pulling out the famed ISF 'Scientific Rigor Only When Convenient And Utterly Inapplicable' card?

Please specify what 'calculations' are appropriate for me to have an opinion.

 

[uke2se]

Aaaaaaand....what evidence and calculations would those be?

The OP asks for conclusions about Ms Thurnberg, specifically if she is deeply disturbed or a brave campaigner. I assume the OP is either requesting clairvoyance, long-distance psychoanalysis, or ...just possibly... opinions.

Can we further assume that you are not asking for evidence and calculations, and that you are pulling out the famed ISF 'Scientific Rigor Only When Convenient And Utterly Inapplicable' card?

Please specify what 'calculations' are appropriate for me to have an opinion.

Thought you said you were out.

 

[lionking]

Aaaaaaand....what evidence and calculations would those be?

The OP asks for conclusions about Ms Thurnberg, specifically if she is deeply disturbed or a brave campaigner. I assume the OP is either requesting clairvoyance, long-distance psychoanalysis, or ...just possibly... opinions.

Can we further assume that you are not asking for evidence and calculations, and that you are pulling out the famed ISF 'Scientific Rigor Only When Convenient And Utterly Inapplicable' card?

Please specify what 'calculations' are appropriate for me to have an opinion.

An unsupported opinion is very easily ignored.

 

[Thermal]

Thought you said you were out.

I believe it is polite to respond to comments requesting data. Also, I said I'm out for what I said I was out about. Darat expressed a desire to demonstrate calculations for forming opinions on a public figure. That's a potentially informative drift topic. Or a content-free gotcha. We'll see.

 

[Thermal]

An unsupported opinion is very easily ignored.

I have supported my opinion on this SI&CE figure: she appears to offer nothing but idealistic finger-wagging.

Perhaps I misunderstand you? Are you saying that requiring calculations for an opinion is, in itself, an unsupported opinion that should be easily ignored?

 

[uke2se]

I have supported my opinion on this SI&CE figure: she appears to offer nothing but idealistic finger-wagging.

Perhaps I misunderstand you? Are you saying that requiring calculations for an opinion is, in itself, an unsupported opinion that should be easily ignored?

She has kickstarted a global movment and kept climate change on the front page - pretty much single-handedly. Not impressive enough for you.

 

[Thermal]

She has kickstarted a global movment and kept climate change on the front page - pretty much single-handedly. Not impressive enough for you.

If we could drop the snide stuff and discuss this like grown ups for a minute?

For some of us, climate change has been front-burner for longer than Greta has been alive. She has not done anything single-handedly; the support base was already there and willing. For instance, I am a member of the US Green Building Council. Our logo is prominent on my business card. I put it there specifically to get customers to ask about it, and segue into the conversation about sustainable products and energy efficient design.

Discussion about Thunberg, however, seems more about virtue signalling, which I personally have little patience for, even though I am on board with her platform. This is the problem, as others have said: she is a feel-good icon for those who love to wave the pom-poms. My criticisms are for those supporters rather than her. She is passionate and idealistic, but brings nothing else to the table. When people get bored with her saying 'shame on you', and it does get old rather quickly, she will fade from the limelight with no net impact. Hopefully, people with workable plans will step up to actually do things.

 

[uke2se]

If we could drop the snide stuff and discuss this like grown ups for a minute?

For some of us, climate change has been front-burner for longer than Greta has been alive. She has not done anything single-handedly; the support base was already there and willing. For instance, I am a member of the US Green Building Council. Our logo is prominent on my business card. I put it there specifically to get customers to ask about it, and segue into the conversation about sustainable products and energy efficient design.

Discussion about Thunberg, however, seems more about virtue signalling, which I personally have little patience for, even though I am on board with her platform. This is the problem, as others have said: she is a feel-good icon for those who love to wave the pom-poms. My criticisms are for those supporters rather than her. She is passionate and idealistic, but brings nothing else to the table. When people get bored with her saying 'shame on you', and it does get old rather quickly, she will fade from the limelight with no net impact. Hopefully, people with workable plans will step up to actually do things.

People with workable plans aren't being listened to. Greta is being listened to. She's telling people to listen to the people with workable plans.

But, you're right. She does do it in a childish nasal voice, and she's a little girl, so it's much more reasonable (not to say cooler) to be super cynical and dismiss her.

 

[Matthew Best]

If we could drop the snide stuff and discuss this like grown ups for a minute?

For some of us, climate change has been front-burner for longer than Greta has been alive. She has not done anything single-handedly; the support base was already there and willing. For instance, I am a member of the US Green Building Council. Our logo is prominent on my business card. I put it there specifically to get customers to ask about it, and segue into the conversation about sustainable products and energy efficient design.

Discussion about Thunberg, however, seems more about virtue signalling, which I personally have little patience for, even though I am on board with her platform.

This is hilarious.

 

[Thermal]

People with workable plans aren't being listened to. Greta is being listened to. She's telling people to listen to the people with workable plans.

But, you're right. She does do it in a childish nasal voice, and she's a little girl, so it's much more reasonable (not to say cooler) to be super cynical and dismiss her.

I doubt they are listening any more than decorum requires. After all, she is not alerting the world to a problem it was unaware of (see Paris accords, Kyoto, etc).

She is parroting a standing message which has been at the forefront of concern for decades. More parroting is a dog and pony show at this point.

 

[Thermal]

This is hilarious.

It is hilarious, isn't it? There are actually posters here that cannot tell the difference between waving pom-poms and actual involvement and action. It's a real hoot to see the slack-jawed confusion between the two.

 

[lomiller]

Remember:
1) She's just a kid, she isn't worth listening to
2) She has death threats? Well she's almost an adult, so deal with them like adults do

Also. Threatening children is makes it even more reprehensible, but using death threats to supress science ranks pretty high on the evil scale even when it’s directed at adults.

 

[uke2se]

I doubt they are listening any more than decorum requires. After all, she is not alerting the world to a problem it was unaware of (see Paris accords, Kyoto, etc).

Well, it would seem many people are unaware of it, intentionally or not. She's putting pressure on lawmakers to act, which is why she's perceived as a threat by deniers.

She is parroting a standing message which has been at the forefront of concern for decades. More parroting is a dog and pony show at this point.

Is "listen to the scientists" parroting a message? Maybe you should sue her for copyright infringement? Seems to me the sour grapes you are exhibiting could mean you fancy yourself a better communicator on this issue than Greta.

 

[Stout]

An unsupported opinion is very easily ignored.

The request for calculations came from the statement that flying across the Atlantic might just be Thunberg's best option, carbon wise.

The problem is we don't know how big the Thunberg show is, We know there's daddy Thunberg so there's two flights at least but if she's got a film crew and a team of publicists it might just be better for the planet if we bung them all in a shipping container and load them onto a cargo boat.

https://qz.com/1741155/greta-thunbergs-options-for-crossing-the-atlantic-again/