Greta Thunberg - brave campaigner or deeply disturbed?

[Stout]

Oh yes. keeping climate change on the front page. That's nothing new, climate change has been on the front page for years. Remember Earth day, or that day we're all supposed to turn off the electricity early ? How about those recent protests in London, the ones with the pink boat. We're pretty much climate changed to death and might just overdose on the topic.

Has battery technology improved to make electric cars more efficient and desirable in the last 30 years ? Remember the EV1 ? Has the cost of energy increased making those energy efficient buildings more desirable ? Vancouver has had electric buses for decades. Skytrain ? CFCs were not part of climate change however they were related and relatively easy to eliminate.

Yet after 30 years of climate change activism we find ourselves in this position with 11 years left to do something drastic so obviously those advances amounted to nothing more than putting a band-aid on a brain tumour.

 

[Giordano]

Should the rest of us do nothing because only the super rich have an impact on greenhouse gases?

No: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0160412019315752
A paper discussing greenhouse gases vs income in USA. Note right side of graph.

Not surprisingly the wealthiest have somewhat more than twice the emissions per person than the poorest, but the vast bulk of Americans contribute substantially over a broad range of incomes. Also note this is per capital and the wealthest are but a tiny percent of the population. So in fact most emissions are by "us" regular people.

 

[Giordano]

Should the rest of us do nothing because only the super rich have an impact on greenhouse gases?

No: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0160412019315752
A paper discussing greenhouse gases vs income in USA. Note right side of graph.

Not surprisingly the wealthiest have somewhat more than twice the emissions per person than the poorest, but the vast bulk of Americans contribute substantially over a broad range of incomes. Also note this is per capital and the wealthest are but a tiny percent of the population. So in fact most emissions are by "us" regular people.

 

[Steve]

Oh yes. keeping climate change on the front page. That's nothing new, climate change has been on the front page for years. Remember Earth day, or that day we're all supposed to turn off the electricity early ? How about those recent protests in London, the ones with the pink boat. We're pretty much climate changed to death and might just overdose on the topic.

That is the problem that is being displayed by most of the critics in this thread. They are tired of hearing about it and they intend to do little at a personal level to combat the problem, so they take the easy way out and “shoot the messenger”.

Has battery technology improved to make electric cars more efficient and desirable in the last 30 years ? Remember the EV1 ? Has the cost of energy increased making those energy efficient buildings more desirable ? Vancouver has had electric buses for decades. Skytrain ? CFCs were not part of climate change however they were related and relatively easy to eliminate.

In order:
- Yes
- No
- Yes. Owners and developers are recognizing financial advantage by constructing energy efficient buildings.
- I am not specifically talking about Vancouver. Neither, to the best of my knowledge, is Greta Thunberg.
- CFC accumulation did have an effect on climate, albeit a minor and temporary one. I used this as an example of how activism led to change.

Yet after 30 years of climate change activism we find ourselves in this position with 11 years left to do something drastic so obviously those advances amounted to nothing more than putting a band-aid on a brain tumour.

Yes and if people stop being concerned about it and stop trying to change things that brain tumour will do what untreated brain tumours always do. The results will not be pretty.

 

[cullennz]

Pleading for a ride to Spain now.

Stuck on the wrong side of the globe.

Maybe another 5 people can fly over again and give her a lift in a boat

Greta Thunberg wants to hitch a lift to relocated climate conference in Spain

The COP25 climate conference changed location for the second time from Chile to Spain

The teenage Swedish activist Greta Thunberg has appealed for help travelling back to Europe after the COP25 climate conference relocated from Santiago, Chile, to Madrid, Spain.

The high-profile attendee has asked for a lift back across the Atlantic and tweeted to say she is now searching for a ride to Spain.

Ms Thunberg refuses to fly due to the carbon emissions released by aviation, opting to travel by boat, train and electric car.

She spent two weeks sailing to the US for a UN gathering and since then has crossed America and was heading to Chile, until the conference got moved.

Whilst speaking at a rally on youth-led climate action in Los Angeles, California, she tweeted: “It turns out I’ve travelled half around the world, the wrong way Now I need to find a way to cross the Atlantic in November...If anyone could help me find transport I would be so grateful."

 

[crescent]

Has battery technology improved to make electric cars more efficient and desirable in the last 30 years ? Remember the EV1 ?

Battery tech has changed significantly. The first two generations of the EV1 used lead-acid batteries, the third generation used Nickel-metal batteries. The EV-1 lead acid batteries weight 1300 pounds and had a range of 60 miles. Tesla Model 3 has a battery weight of 1054 pounds, I think that's the first release of the Model 3 that has a 300 mile range. Even if it is just the lower teir Model 3 with the 150 mile range, that's still double the power to energy ratio of the EV-1 batteries. Add to that the Telsa batteries have a much longer life than lead-acid batteries, essentially the life of the car.

This is what is pushing electric vehicles into the mass market - tech changes have made them much more practical.

 

[Matthew Best]

Pleading for a ride to Spain now.

Yes, this was already posted two pages ago.

 

[cullennz]

Maybe rather than offering her a lift, someone can offer to show her how video conferencing works

 

[Steve]

Maybe rather than offering her a lift, someone can offer to show her how video conferencing works

Odd that you think she doesn’t know how.

 

[lionking]

Odd that you think she doesn’t know how.

But why doesn’t she just do video conferencing? You know, like they do in the United Nations, Parliaments, Congress, inaugurations......

I think even someone as young as Greta realises that the best form of communication is in person and that when you don’t do it that way so much of the message is lost. It’s a pity some in this thread don’t understand how effective communication works.

 

[Thermal]

Pleading for a ride to Spain now.

Stuck on the wrong side of the globe.

Maybe another 5 people can fly over again and give her a lift in a boat

This is what bugs me about Miss Thang, and I'm sure it bugs other people: her position is childish. Her plan is now to...what? Hang around burning up resources again till somebody plants another massive carbon footprint to perpetuate her cheap show of not flying? The only cheap show I like from young women are from those a few years older that...never mind. If her concern was environmental impact, secure an empty seat on a transatlantic flight. Doesn't increase demand, and the plane was going anyway, bringing her actual use to close to zero. Instead, keep burning resources under the pretense of being too good go for the actual low-impact method.

 

[Thermal]

But why doesn’t she just do video conferencing? You know, like they do in the United Nations, Parliaments, Congress, inaugurations......

I think even someone as young as Greta realises that the best form of communication is in person and that when you don’t do it that way so much of the message is lost. It’s a pity some in this thread don’t understand how effective communication works.

It's a pity that some in this thread don't recognize a dog-and-pony show with the soon-to-be forgotten Cat Video of the week.

 

[Steve]

This is what bugs me about Miss Thang, and I'm sure it bugs other people: her position is childish. Her plan is now to...what? Hang around burning up resources again till somebody plants another massive carbon footprint to perpetuate her cheap show of not flying? The only cheap show I like from young women are from those a few years older that...never mind. If her concern was environmental impact, secure an empty seat on a transatlantic flight. Doesn't increase demand, and the plane was going anyway, bringing her actual use to close to zero. Instead, keep burning resources under the pretense of being too good go for the actual low-impact method.

Yes, I am sure that her travel arrangements are what really bug people. The most admired climate activists, and the ones having the biggest impact, are certainly those that never go anywhere. Just look at all the well known names of activists that do just that and generate worldwide publicity for the cause. Go ahead and name some for us.

ETA: “Miss Thang”? And you call her a child! Takes one to know one I guess.

 

[Steve]

It's a pity that some in this thread don't recognize a dog-and-pony show with the soon-to-be forgotten Cat Video of the week.

She has been able to generate over 2300 comments in this little backwater of the internet. The majority disparaging. I think her effect on the real world, where she has many millions of supporters, will be much more positive and long-lasting than you hope.

 

[arthwollipot]

Sorry but that is utter tosh.

Show me with stats how people turning vegan affects the carbon output of China, the US, Russia and India

That's not what Orphia said.

She said that if you want to personally do something about climate change, the thing that you can do that will have the biggest impact is to go vegan. She didn't make any claim about China, the US, Russia or India, just you.

Stop strawmanning and whatabouting.

 

[arthwollipot]

btw the forum's most beloved writer Caitlin Johnstone has again written a very relevant piece that is core-connected to this thread about Greta and her cult. Worth reading and thinking about.

Under what definition are you referring to it as a "cult"?

Or are you just using that word for its derogatory connotations?

 

[Thermal]

Yes, I am sure that her travel arrangements are what really bug people. The most admired climate activists, and the ones having the biggest impact, are certainly those that never go anywhere. Just look at all the well known names of activists that do just that and generate worldwide publicity for the cause. Go ahead and name some for us.

No, actual scientists and researchers know that sometimes flying can be the low-footprint option. The True Tree-Hugger may walk in their pure dedication, but will quite likely burn more resources on the long trip. Thunberg's approach without question is. In pure contradiction of her purported message.

ETA: “Miss Thang”? And you call her a child! Takes one to know one I guess.

Ok, you're right, that was uncalled for. What some posters, myself included, cannot stand is bull ****. Again, if her mission is the lowered carbon footprint, how much more is she wasting rather than jump on a flight's available seat? That's the cold math at play, that an actual advocate would factor in. She's not at actual advocate. She's all hype, no teeth. Do we not have enough of that already?

Do you think she is going to spurn a planet to action? I don't. I think she's a feel-good cat video, being championed by the self-righteous who will forget about her for the next cat video, while doing nothing.

You want to talk climate change, resource management, alternative fuels and other measures? I'm in. You want to talk about some self-righteous kid looking down her nose about a subject she knows little about and poses no solutions? I'm out.

 

[Thermal]

She has been able to generate over 2300 comments in this little backwater of the internet. The majority disparaging. I think her effect on the real world, where she has many millions of supporters, will be much more positive and long-lasting than you hope.

But take the 'talk talk talk' back to the real world: what has changed in the carbon footprint as a result of our 2300 comments? I'll venture a guess. Squat. I may have done more for the planet after work by separating construction debris for recycling than all 2300 comments put together. And while she may have millions of supporters, I bet they were all on board with climate change measures before Greta, and will be so after she passes from the limelight. Net Greta impact: likely zero.

I'd much rather read about development in those cheap solar panels MIT was making out of lead acid car batteries. Real world, practical moves towards a solution. Not a kid wagging her finger.

 

[Steve]

No, actual scientists and researchers know that sometimes flying can be the low-footprint option. The True Tree-Hugger may walk in their pure dedication, but will quite likely burn more resources on the long trip. Thunberg's approach without question is. In pure contradiction of her purported message.

Ok. I have not followed how she has travelled through North America, and it seems to be undetermined how she will get to Spain. I will review any evidence you would care to provide Thunberg’s travel is high footprint.

Ok, you're right, that was uncalled for. What some posters, myself included, cannot stand is bull ****. Again, if her mission is the lowered carbon footprint, how much more is she wasting rather than jump on a flight's available seat? That's the cold math at play, that an actual advocate would factor in. She's not at actual advocate. She's all hype, no teeth. Do we not have enough of that already?

Do you think she is going to spurn a planet to action? I don't. I think she's a feel-good cat video, being championed by the self-righteous who will forget about her for the next cat video, while doing nothing.

You want to talk climate change, resource management, alternative fuels and other measures? I'm in. You want to talk about some self-righteous kid looking down her nose about a subject she knows little about and poses no solutions? I'm out.

But you are not out. You have many posts here in a thread titled “Greta Thunberg, brave campaigner or deeply disturbed”. I have not noticed anything productive in any of these posts. Just cheap and insulting criticisms of a young lady who is doing her own personal best to help alleviate a serious climate problem. She may be young, she may be naive, she is certainly not as knowledgeable as the scientists she is telling everybody to listen to. But she is accomplishing a hell of a lot more than anyone posting snide comments in this thread.

 

[tyr_13]

Battery tech has changed significantly. The first two generations of the EV1 used lead-acid batteries, the third generation used Nickel-metal batteries. The EV-1 lead acid batteries weight 1300 pounds and had a range of 60 miles. Tesla Model 3 has a battery weight of 1054 pounds, I think that's the first release of the Model 3 that has a 300 mile range. Even if it is just the lower teir Model 3 with the 150 mile range, that's still double the power to energy ratio of the EV-1 batteries. Add to that the Telsa batteries have a much longer life than lead-acid batteries, essentially the life of the car.

This is what is pushing electric vehicles into the mass market - tech changes have made them much more practical.

I should note that several truck manufacturers (DTNA specifically) have stated, and are behaving as if they honestly believe, that a full third of fleets will be fully EV (battery or hydrogen) in 10 to 15 years. DTNA even dumped their natural gas work as unneeded, as it was a transitional technology that simply isn't going to be required.

The transition away from carbon fuels for transport and power production would be faster if the costs were not allowed to be externalized to governments and the populace.

/derail from 'skeptics' rationalizing their ad-hom and general hate-on of someone who is generally correct