Greta Thunberg - brave campaigner or deeply disturbed?

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Just chiming in another vote that while her message is sound, the delivery is childishly counterproductive. 'Shame on you, we're on the verge of mass extinction'? As if the people she speaks to are both the cause and solution to the problem. We didn't start the fire, to quote philosopher William Joel, and many of the people she speaks to do more to reduce emissions before lunch than she will do in her lifetime.
 
Thermal said:
Just chiming in another vote that while her message is sound, the delivery is childishly counterproductive. 'Shame on you, we're on the verge of mass extinction'? As if the people she speaks to are both the cause and solution to the problem. We didn't start the fire, to quote philosopher William Joel, and many of the people she speaks to do more to reduce emissions before lunch than she will do in her lifetime.
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But "the people," meaning the society as a whole to which she is speaking are the cause of the problem- who else? We started the fire, expanded it dramatically, and continue to recklessly burn carbon rich fuels in it. That doesn't mean everyone, and as you state many have been working to reduce their own admissions and achieve changes that might help more broadly. But many have not and powerful politicians and corporations have sought to convince people that nothing need be done. More important by far not enough has been achieved and unless people are convinced to do more we are facing a disaster of unprecedented magnitude. We should feel shame! She may goad us but we will be endlessly cursed by future generations for the world we leave them.

Also: why are we not the solution too? There are many things we can already do, and many things in the works.
 
This thread has seen more “perfect is the enemy of the good” posts than any other I’ve seen. Greta doesn’t protest about fire fighting aircraft using fossil fuels, so she’s..... something, maybe a hypocrite or something. People (like me) calling on governments to get serious about climate change, but I use a car as a tool of trade, so my comments about government inactivity can be ignored. Because some people won’t do enough, others shouldn’t bother.

Governments can do a lot and quickly (look at Germany), so how about starting there. Meanwhile people can convince others to become vegans, electric cars can become more affordable, solar power more efficient and so on.

Or, you know, just don’t bother because perfect solutions won’t be adopted by everyone.
 
lionking said:
This thread has seen more “perfect is the enemy of the good” posts than any other I’ve seen. Greta doesn’t protest about fire fighting aircraft using fossil fuels, so she’s..... something, maybe a hypocrite or something. People (like me) calling on governments to get serious about climate change, but I use a car as a tool of trade, so my comments about government inactivity can be ignored. Because some people won’t do enough, others shouldn’t bother.

Governments can do a lot and quickly (look at Germany), so how about starting there. Meanwhile people can convince others to become vegans, electric cars can become more affordable, solar power more efficient and so on.

Or, you know, just don’t bother because perfect solutions won’t be adopted by everyone.
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Your problem is people turn off when you say silly things like people turning vegan will have an impact on climate change.
 
Giordano said:
But "the people," meaning the society as a whole to which she is speaking are the cause of the problem- who else? We started the fire, expanded it dramatically, and continue to recklessly burn carbon rich fuels in it. That doesn't mean everyone, and as you state many have been working to reduce their own admissions and achieve changes that might help more broadly. But many have not and powerful politicians and corporations have sought to convince people that nothing need be done. More important by far not enough has been achieved and unless people are convinced to do more we are facing a disaster of unprecedented magnitude. We should feel shame! She may goad us but we will be endlessly cursed by future generations for the world we leave them.

Also: why are we not the solution too? There are many things we can already do, and many things in the works.
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'We' didn't start it. Generations before us started it, with the march of the industrial revolution and what not. 'We', being all of society today, are part of the problem, much as we can be part of the solution. And that includes the self-righteous Miss Greta, who places herself above us to scold us with 'Shame on you'.

I've been on board with Reduce, Reuse & Recycle for decades. Denying myself a lot of new things with that specific goal in mind every day. My customers get my researched recommendations for Green Building products that last. Riding my bike when feasible and all that. But this holier than thou attitude from some kid who parrots what others say (she shows little more practical environmental savvy than any other teen, IMO) gets under my skin, even though I largely support her platform. She's a case of a good message poorly delivered.
 
Thermal said:
'We' didn't start it. Generations before us started it, with the march of the industrial revolution and what not. 'We', being all of society today, are part of the problem, much as we can be part of the solution. And that includes the self-righteous Miss Greta, who places herself above us to scold us with 'Shame on you'.

I've been on board with Reduce, Reuse & Recycle for decades. Denying myself a lot of new things with that specific goal in mind every day. My customers get my researched recommendations for Green Building products that last. Riding my bike when feasible and all that. But this holier than thou attitude from some kid who parrots what others say (she shows little more practical environmental savvy than any other teen, IMO) gets under my skin, even though I largely support her platform. She's a case of a good message poorly delivered.
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Good for you! Seriously. So don't feel so targeted by her.
 
Giordano said:
Good for you! Seriously. So don't feel so targeted by her.
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Exactly

And what ever happens don't hope we get through this.

Greta says she doesn't like hope.

Greta says we all have to panic.

Panic good. Hope bad
 
Steve said:
Well said. None of her critics in this thread have provided a decent rebuttal to her position. Because there isn’t one. It is all about infantile personal attacks.
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I have to underscore this, because it's all that needs to be said.
 
eerok said:
I have to underscore this, because it's all that needs to be said.
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Absolutely correct, but as long as this thread lasts there will be a stream of conservatives and deniers (who deny they are deniers) attacking her. Pathetic really.
 
cullennz said:
Most normal people wouldn't expect this.

Can you point out the few she and her team have?
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Who, exactly, is her team?



cullennz said:
Exactly

And what ever happens don't hope we get through this.

Greta says she doesn't like hope.

Greta says we all have to panic.

Panic good. Hope bad
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"When you start to act, hope is everywhere" - Greta Thunberg, New York.
 
cullennz said:
Your problem is people turn off when you say silly things like people turning vegan will have an impact on climate change.
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It shows people have turned off when they don't realise that turning vegan is exactly one way (in fact the biggest way) an individual can make an impact on climate change.

It shows you have issues beyond climate change denial, but rather diet and identity.

It can't mean anything else if you're familiar with the science.

(Note, I'm not actually vegan myself. I just know this information. The society I live in is making being veg*an more and more doable, so I'm transitioning my buying habits, family, and palate preferences.)
 
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Just noting that climate change denial has shifted to a slightly less ignorant stance from outright climate denial to Thunberg/protester bashing.

You could call it a protest movement.
 
Orphia Nay said:
It shows people have turned off when they don't realise that turning vegan is exactly one way (in fact the biggest way) an individual can make an impact on climate change.

It shows you have issues beyond climate change denial, but rather diet and identity.

It can't mean anything else if you're familiar with the science.

(Note, I'm not actually vegan myself. I just know this information. The society I live in is making being veg*an more and more doable, so I'm transitioning my buying habits, family, and palate preferences.)
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I think the biggest way would be not having China burning mass coal which makes up 18 odd % global carbon emissions and the US and India not dis-similar.

Just a personal opinion though and I havent used a plastic bag in ages, cos you no...It makes such a difference
 
Orphia Nay said:
It shows people have turned off when they don't realise that turning vegan is exactly one way (in fact the biggest way) an individual can make an impact on climate change.

It shows you have issues beyond climate change denial, but rather diet and identity.

It can't mean anything else if you're familiar with the science.

(Note, I'm not actually vegan myself. I just know this information. The society I live in is making being veg*an more and more doable, so I'm transitioning my buying habits, family, and palate preferences.)
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Sorry but that is utter tosh.

Show me with stats how people turning vegan affects the carbon output of China, the US, Russia and India
 
qayak said:
1- No, they are not. In fact, rebuttals, or lack thereof, to her position are all we have to decide the question posed in the thread title.
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BS. That question was answered long ago (by me): It's a false dichotomy. She can be both. Or none of them. Links to the climate change thread in the science subforum were provided (by me), where you can discuss if the scientists she asks us to listen to are right or wrong.

The rest of your post and the bad attempt by Steve (combined with this post) just prove my point 3. :cool:
 
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cullennz said:
Sorry but that is utter tosh.

Show me with stats how people turning vegan affects the carbon output of China, the US, Russia and India
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Unless you're super-rich your lifestyle choices don't make one iota of a difference anyway.
 
Darat said:
Cullenz has a habit of simply lying about what she has said and he has been shown the quotes that show he is lying.
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It’s sad and exasperating when things can be pointed out to someone and that person stubbornly refuses to accept them. Yes, lying is the correct word.
 
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