Venezuela Oil Program

Cleon

King of the Pod People
Cleon
Joined
Aug 28, 2001
Messages
25,649
Location
Atlanta, GA
Well, much skepticism was expressed about whether Chavez' claims of sending heating oil to poor communities in the US was all just smoke in mirrors.

Looks like it's actually happening.

QUINCY, Massachusetts (AP) -- Thousands of low-income Massachusetts residents will receive discounted home heating oil this winter under an agreement signed Tuesday with Venezuela, whose government is a political adversary of the Bush administration.


Citgo Petroleum Corp., a subsidiary of Venezuela's state-owned oil company, will supply oil at 40 percent below market prices.
It will be distributed by two nonprofit organizations, Citizens Energy Corp. and the Massachusetts Energy Consumers Alliance.
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Citgo is a well known local company. THey have a famous sign over the wall at Fenway Park.

Aint it nice when billion dollar companies can sell their crap to non profit for cost. I wonder how many people are qualifiying for the heat aid programs because their budgets were busted by hper-high energy costs.
 
I just saw this story.

Let it be said that I love the fuel assistance programs a lot and although Joe Kennedy Jr. is kinda of an ass as a person, I won't hear jack. Seriously, on top of the price of oil itself, delivering heating oil is a big buisness around here. I know a few folks who made themselves a nice tidy pile of money with it. He does a good thing and I confess, that yes, my family did recieve aid from these programs. I might be biased. A little. Just a little.

And yay, for Delahunt. I knew I liked him.
 
LostAngeles said:
I just saw this story.

Let it be said that I love the fuel assistance programs a lot and although Joe Kennedy Jr. is kinda of an ass as a person, I won't hear jack. Seriously, on top of the price of oil itself, delivering heating oil is a big buisness around here. I know a few folks who made themselves a nice tidy pile of money with it. He does a good thing and I confess, that yes, my family did recieve aid from these programs. I might be biased. A little. Just a little.

And yay, for Delahunt. I knew I liked him.
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I thought you were in LA?
 
American said:
US Navy should sink the tanker, if they had any balls.
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Yes, this is just oportunistic showboating from Chavez. But it's going to cost him money to do it. So far, Chavez has held on to power by riding those petrodollars, without having to worry that he's wrecking the rest of the economy. But he's already raiding the Venezuelan treasury, he cannot keep spending like this indefinitely. When the money runs out, so will all the "good will" he's built up. Who are we to discourage him from spending a little faster?
 
Ziggurat said:
Yes, this is just oportunistic showboating from Chavez.
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Well, yes, but he's getting a rise from it.
But it's going to cost him money to do it. So far, Chavez has held on to power by riding those petrodollars,
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His ride won't end any time soon, if only the price per barrel is a factor; oil prices are not going to ever significantly fall again (barring discoveries of magical non-oil energy sources that can power 767's).
without having to worry that he's wrecking the rest of the economy.
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This is where the real debate starts: i.e., just what is happening with the rest of the economy? How does it compare with Brazil or Mexico or Argentina? Chavez is making points elsewhere as well, and the future is unclear.
, he cannot keep spending like this indefinitely. When the money runs out, so will all the "good will" he's built up. Who are we to discourage him from spending a little faster?
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I dunno, I tend to say the same about President Bush. ;)
 
Mycroft said:
I didn't think any tankers were US flagged.
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Not any in the international trade. But all cargos which originate and terminate in the US must be on US flagged carriers. Assuming that Chavez intends to use Venezuelan crude to make the heating oil, about the only refineries which can convert the stuff in compliance with the new US low-sulphur laws (and definitely the only ones he owns) are along the US gulf coast. From there, he can only pipeline it up to about Providence, RI, so I'm figuring he'll load it onto an intercoastal tanker and ship it right into Boston harbor. So yes, "American" has advocated the sinking of a US vessel, the probable deaths of at least some of its crew of American citizens and the despoiling of the US coastline because he disagrees with Chavez' propaganda program.
 
Maybe American is in cahoots with Pat Robertson and some more-whacky-than-usual survivalists.
 
manny said:
Not any in the international trade. But all cargos which originate and terminate in the US must be on US flagged carriers. Assuming that Chavez intends to use Venezuelan crude to make the heating oil, about the only refineries which can convert the stuff in compliance with the new US low-sulphur laws (and definitely the only ones he owns) are along the US gulf coast. From there, he can only pipeline it up to about Providence, RI, so I'm figuring he'll load it onto an intercoastal tanker and ship it right into Boston harbor. So yes, "American" has advocated the sinking of a US vessel, the probable deaths of at least some of its crew of American citizens and the despoiling of the US coastline because he disagrees with Chavez' propaganda program.
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So you just sink the international tanker full of crude before it's refined?

Not that I advocate that, just saying it doesn't necessarily mean sinking a US ship.
 
Ziggurat:
"When the money runs out, so will all the "good will" he's built up. "


You mean like in America?
Funny, after the coup attempt and the reasonably successful attempt to ruin the economy by a minority of people whose idea of democracy is frankly fascist, assorted ding and moon bats were complaining about the slowest growth rate and biggest poverty increases in Venezuela, ignoring utterly those root causes for it.

Now that that has reversed so that Venezuela has the highest growth rates in South America, the biggest decrease in child birth deaths and illiteracy and the best access to health you are making the laughable claim of overspending.

When I look at your 2 favourite countries and their ludicrous overspending - the US and Israel - I see in you a man who has lost contact with reality. The difference between Venezuela and those two sorry-assed nations is that Venezuela's "spending" is on raising people out of the gutter and giving them a fair and permanent stake in their own economy, whereas in Israel (which would economically collapse without US charity) and the US, spending is on endless conflicts built on lies and the channelling of profits through to the obscenely wealthy corporate class.
In Venezuela's case, the asset of its people is for the first time being fostered. In the other 2 sorry-assed nations the welfare of people under their responsibility is being abused and deep-sixed.

Whilst your're disappearing up your own fundamentalist orifice it might be useful for you to take a moment and recognise that you come across as wholly inept when you put perjorative positions that apply more to your "side" than to the objects of your ridicule.
 
charts.php

http://nccp.org/state_detail_demographic_MA.html

Massachusetts... interesting choice to start giving to the needy.

Low-Income Children: 29% (408,011) of children live in low-income families (National: 38%).

Children in Poverty: 12% (165,573) of children live in poor families (National: 17%).
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demon said:
When I look at your 2 favourite countries and their ludicrous overspending - the US and Israel - I see in you a man who has lost contact with reality.
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When you ascribe opinions to me which I have never expressed, I see in you a man who can't debate honestly. When have I ever said Israel is one of my favorite countries? Oh, that's right: I never did. That's an opinion you ascribe to me from the fevered delusions of your own bile-filled fantasies. And why would you pick Israel? I haven't mentioned it here, and neither has anyone else. Is it, perhaps, because you're a little obsessed with it? Could that perhaps tell us more about you than it does about me?

Whilst your're disappearing up your own fundamentalist orifice it might be useful for you to take a moment and recognise that you come across as wholly inept when you put perjorative positions that apply more to your "side" than to the objects of your ridicule.
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Really? Funny thing, though: I'd rather be poor in America than almost any other country in the world - sure as hell better being poor here than in Venezuela. Our poor have better standards of living than most of the world, and spending on par with the middle class in Europe. And yet, we're supposedly this horribly inequitable country which shafts the poor. Well, we don't. Rather, we don't try to punish success. Venezuela has been doing "better" because oil prices have risen, something they cannot attribute to any merit of their economic policy. Without that oil, and without American dollars buying it, they would be much poorer, because their socialist system which you admire is incapable of generating significant wealth through work and industry which doesn't depend on just selling off natural resources they're lucky enough to be sitting on top of.

Is there any leftist tyrant you won't favor over the US? Any at all?
 
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