Archie Gemmill Goal
Banned
- Joined
- Nov 18, 2015
- Messages
- 8,324
May be???!??
-
Security incident: ISF was recently accessed by intruders. Please change your password, and change it anywhere else you used it. Read more
UK - December 2019 General Election
- Thread starter The Don
- Start date
May be???!??
Hye I didn't want to seem to dogmatic, but yeah, people need to look past Brexit and consider Johnson's wider agenda, or rather that of Cummings and co.
Dave Rogers
Bandaged ice that stampedes inexpensively through
Yeah, when Johnson is the literal evil, the figurative one can't really compare.
Dave
As I expected, Nigel Farage wants an electoral pact with the Conservatives (which IMO they will enthusiastically agree to) because he doesn't want power, he wants money and influence and having a handful of MPs and the gratitude of the Conservative MP is a great way to achieve that.
Conservative Remainers (like two of the members of Wyld Bird Seed) will vote Conservative and IMO this news means that the Conservative majority could easily be 150-200
Conservative Remainers (like two of the members of Wyld Bird Seed) will vote Conservative and IMO this news means that the Conservative majority could easily be 150-200
The issue isn't Labour's policies, it's the way that Corbyn's reputation allows them to be spun into a communist coup and his ineffectiveness as a leader drives away support for the Labour Party.
People won't be voting on policies, they'll be voting on personality and the perception of policy an Jeremy Corbyn is IMO electoral poison in both of those cases.
P.J. Denyer
Penultimate Amazing
As I expected, Nigel Farage wants an electoral pact with the Conservatives (which IMO they will enthusiastically agree to) because he doesn't want power, he wants money and influence and having a handful of MPs and the gratitude of the Conservative MP is a great way to achieve that.
Conservative Remainers (like two of the members of Wyld Bird Seed) will vote Conservative and IMO this news means that the Conservative majority could easily be 150-200
I wonder what all the people who paid £200 to apply to be candidates to stand in these constituencies will think about that. Or the £25 'supporters' who formally voted Conservative but thought they were supporting an alternative.
They will vote for the Conservative or Brexit Party candidate whichever is standing in their constituency - whatever delivers the hardest Brexit possible.
Vixen
Penultimate Amazing
I disagree. Theresa May tried US-style personality electioneering and ended up with a minority government (and this was when the Conservative government was perceived to have been strong [or she would not have called an election]).
Truth is the hoi polloi vastly outnumber the rose-pruning Home Counties brigade, who whilst they own the hegemony (BBC, broadsheets, tabloids) and exert a powerful influence, there are many sectors of the unwashed masses who will NEVER vote Conservative, just as there are those diehard working class Tories who worship Thatcher because she helped them make a killing on buying their council homes at great discount.
Sociologists have identified that in general the Irish element vote Labour, as does it seems the Scots in the UK.
Now I tend to be left leaning but if it is going to be based on personality I have to say there are several Labour MPs I cannot stand. I like Corbyn, Abbott, Lammy, Sheerman, Yvette Cooper (who'd make a great party leader IMV). However, most do not float my boat. For example, Tulip Siddiq, Thornberry, Kate Hoey, Holly Lynch, the northerner 'working mum' who flaps her arms around and everyone thinks should be next leader (Nooooooo!).
This does make me wonder whether this is my Home Counties bourgeois [snobby] background shining through and perhaps I should vote in accordance with where my economic interests lie (for example, decrease inheritance tax, income tax and company tax). But can I stand that MP who keeps wittering on about the Ribble Valley? (Heavens, no!)
No, it is best to vote on policy and what is best for the country and not on personalities. Therein lies the road to Hell.
Last edited:
Theresa May didn't have a marketable personality, Boris Johnson does.
We also have much more evidence of how ineffective Corbyn is as a leader.
I agree that people should wade through all the manifestos an understand what the policies are and vote accordingly but only a time proportion of people have the time, ability and inclination to do this. Most people will be relying on the Cliff Notes versions they get from their information source(s) of choice.
Corbyn will be "IRA sympathiser, anti-Semite, return to the Winter of Discontent" - the truth doesn't matter, that's the narrative being pushed by most of the media.
Rolfe
Adult human female
Scots vote Labour? We gave that up about ten years ago.
Lothian
should be banned
This morning some vox pop from the the South East, had comments like "I am voting for Boris because he always delivers what he promises"
"I am not right wing link the NF. I am closer to the BNP. I don't want foreigners coming here and ruining our white culture. I am not a racist"
Will a fair press change minds like these?
Lothian
should be banned
2017 General election
SNP 977,569
Con 757,949
Lab 717,007
Don't confuse a biased voting system which favours the SNP, giving them ~60% of the seats on ~37% of the vote, with Popularity.
Maybe the former, maybe the latter may be persuaded not vote or vote BNP rather than Conservative (though a the rate at which the Tories are lurching to the right there may not be a huge difference).
There are a lot of underinformed people who could benefit from a fair press but it's pointless, that ship has sailed, it'll be good old BoJo against the terrorist
Archie Gemmill Goal
Banned
- Joined
- Nov 18, 2015
- Messages
- 8,324
I don't disagree but if you unpack what you are saying it's rather grim.
People will vote against their best interests because they are being fed a line by the right-wing press to believe things that aren't true. And the only way to overcome that is to get a leader who is right-wing enough that the right-wing press will allow him to become PM such as Blair.
The whole country is f'ed.
Rolfe
Adult human female
Way to prove my point. Labour came third. This can by no means be translated into "the Scots vote Labour".
It's the same voting system as the rest of Britain, and the basis for all the comments has been the same as the basis for comments about other electoral battlefields. It's common for a government to be elected on 37% of the vote.
Scotland used to vote Labour. It doesn't do that any more. In the normal terms of how these things are discussed.
A charismatic and competent left-winger without the taint of historical support for the IRA an anti-Semitism might stand a chance.
I don't have a problem with a centreist leader as long as the party gets to deliver progressive policies. It's be the reverse of the Conservatives, promise anodyne things but when in government, deliver something rather different.
People are voting against their best interests but that's because they've believed the hype that the EU and immigrants are responsible for all the ills in society.
Squeegee Beckenheim
Penultimate Amazing
- Joined
- Dec 29, 2010
- Messages
- 32,124
Didn't you say that you weren't going to vote? I'm not sure I see a huge amount of difference between voting against your own self-interest and abstaining so that other people can vote against your self-interest for you.
Squeegee Beckenheim
Penultimate Amazing
- Joined
- Dec 29, 2010
- Messages
- 32,124
Information Analyst
Penultimate Amazing
"The prime minister was sent the report two weeks ago but has yet failed to clear its publication in advance of the UK general election."
Which it can't now be, as we're in purdah.
There's a certain disgruntlement where I work, because the same means that we can't now publish our annual report, which everyone was working their bollocks off to have ready for this week.
Lothian
should be banned
Ireland scuppers the SNP?
I am expecting to hear over the next few weeks that voting for the Tories will lead to a hard brexit, which will be followed by Scotland having indy ref 2 and leaving the union.
How realistic is that second threat if the first condition is met. Hasn't Ireland shown us, and the SNP arguments demonstrated that an independent Scotland in the EU would need a hard border somewhere north of Hadrian's wall? Would Scots really choose that option? Is indy ref 2 an empty threat as far as this campaign is concerned?
I am expecting to hear over the next few weeks that voting for the Tories will lead to a hard brexit, which will be followed by Scotland having indy ref 2 and leaving the union.
How realistic is that second threat if the first condition is met. Hasn't Ireland shown us, and the SNP arguments demonstrated that an independent Scotland in the EU would need a hard border somewhere north of Hadrian's wall? Would Scots really choose that option? Is indy ref 2 an empty threat as far as this campaign is concerned?
Last edited: