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Dyslexia

LostAngeles said:
So why aren't there dyslexia tests along with the vision tests when driving licenses are issued and/or renewed?
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Good point. Just to cover their butts, the DMV asks if you have all kinds of other problems that might impair your driving in Florida and Ohio. Black outs, seizures, etc. Dyslexia was not among these last ditch effort questions in either state. Even if it cost too much to test, you'd think they could at least ask if you were dyslexic.
 
delphi_ote said:
Good point. Just to cover their butts, the DMV asks if you have all kinds of other problems that might impair your driving in Florida and Ohio. Black outs, seizures, etc. Dyslexia was not among these last ditch effort questions in either state. Even if it cost too much to test, you'd think they could at least ask if you were dyslexic.
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As much as I think Claus's assertation is total bull, I think it'd be interesting and worth looking into to see if any DMV or RMV or whatever alphabet soup handles driver's licenses does, in fact, restrict driving privliges with regards to dyslexia. The reason I'm throwing this out there and not doing it myself? I'm going to bed and the next four days are full of scheduling goodness. Also, turkey.

And um, that whole thing about claimer provides evidence. And turkey. With stuffing.
 
CFLarsen said:
Liar.

Jeebus creebus, Mycroft, why do you lie so blatantly? Because you believe that the greater lie, the easier it is for people to swallow it?

That will work, unless someone points it out.



If, if, if. I asked you where those other visual clues were, and you come up with imaginary visual clues?

Do you really have such disdain for your audience? You really think they will gobble up this crap of yours?
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I think the average reader here probably also has a driver’s license and knows perfectly well what a typical intersection with a "no left turn" sign looks like. I think they also understand that most drivers don't have extreme tunnel vision and are capable of seeing an entire intersection and not just one sign at the intersection.

CFLarsen said:
You will probably get along just fine in most situations. But in a dangerous situation, where you don't have time to mull it over, even for a second or two, your lack of ability will pose a threat.
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Exactly what would that “dangerous situation” be?
 
CFLarsen said:
Anecdotal evidence, I'm afraid. If you have problems differentiating between left and right, then you will have problems driving safely. Such a fundamental skill is an absolute necessity.

You will probably get along just fine in most situations. But in a dangerous situation, where you don't have time to mull it over, even for a second or two, your lack of ability will pose a threat.

The concept of "left" and "right" is so fundamental that we often forget just how important they are. We should never dismiss the problems involved with not being fully aware, at any time, at any given moment.
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AGAIN, either I have failed to convey the information correctly, or you have failed to grasp it.

I do NOT have problems differentiating left and right as actual directions or as concepts of directions. I DO have issues accurately and rapidly equating the WORDS "left" and "right" with those directions and/or concepts. That does NOT mean I take minutes to make the connection, just that my reaction times and accuracy would put me consistently below average.

If you direct me without using those actual words but by some other method (preferably pictorially, e.g. pointing) then my reaction times will probably be much better and more accurate than most people's. Really.

Tell you what - let's run a n=1 trial at TAM. I drive, you direct, use both methods, get some idea of timing and accuracy. Make a scientific contribution. Deal? (I suggest in a BIG EMPTY parking lot! ;))
 
Better yet, let´s have an n=3 sample of Zep, Geni and Shanek. How long have they been driving, how many accidents have they caused, how many people have they killed and injured, how much property damage have they caused.

Then let´s take an n=3 control group of Claus... myself... and, say... Mycroft. Same questions.

Let´s start with my own data:
Not dyslexic, driving for 9 years now, 1 accident, no dead or injured people, ~$7,500 damage


Spit it out, gentlemen!
 
Heh! Fair enough!

Actually, I wonder if jj would like to be involved...!

Me: Slightly dyslexic, driving for 33 years now, at least 1.5 million kilometers clocked up at the wheel(!), 2 serious accidents only, injured myself very slightly in one, no deaths, about US$5000 total damage (estimated).
 
Maybe we should keep in mind that some very simple things are going to skew these statistics in a big way. For a start, you guys all live in different countries with different population densities, traffic laws, number of drivers, etc.

Also, maybe you should note who was at fault in the accidents. To add to the sample in case others don't, I'm not dyslexic. I've caused two accidents for a total of maybe 2k damage. I've been driving for about 10 years now.
 
Another problem I've noticed with my dyslexic son is that of learning abstract concepts. I don't mean reading about them; he can read that sort of material just as well as any other. It's the retention of the definitions and attributes of the concepts. A couple of examples:

He has trouble describing the difference between communism and capitalism, even though we have reviewed it many times.

He had trouble on a biology test about the components of the cell. In fairness, they introduced about a dozen of the major cell components all at once (e.g., cell membrane, nucleus, ribosome, vacuole, mitochondrion).

I can't get a grip on whether this is just a memorization problem, or something more interesting about abstract concepts. I know he has memorization issues; he didn't manage to memorize his multiplication facts after three years of trying. On the other hand, he has no trouble remembering, for example, where every object in the house is.

Has anyone else noticed this?

~~ Paul
 
I caused my accident, too. Darkness, wet asphalt, lack of experience, and minimally reckless driving. And it was Friday, 13th, too :D


Sure things can skew this survey, but I guess if we can get one or more dyslexic and non-dyslexic each from every broad region, this should cancel itself out more or less.

Another thought I´ve had since posting my challenge is to see if insurance companies charge any extra premium for motor insurance from dyslexics - if dyslexics are notably worse drivers, motor insurances would be among the first to notice that.
 
Chaos said:
Better yet, let´s have an n=3 sample of Zep, Geni and Shanek. How long have they been driving, how many accidents have they caused, how many people have they killed and injured, how much property damage have they caused.

Then let´s take an n=3 control group of Claus... myself... and, say... Mycroft. Same questions.

Let´s start with my own data:
Not dyslexic, driving for 9 years now, 1 accident, no dead or injured people, ~$7,500 damage


Spit it out, gentlemen!
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No, actually, I would belong in the first group. I'm not dyslexic, but I also have to think about it before I know left from right.

Driving for 22 years, 1 accident (within a month of my first getting a license) <$1500 damage.
 
and when you take your driver test in NH you get an eye exam. Now if you are dyslexic, you might have trouble reading the letters in order! That would rule out really severe dyslexics.

I remember when I lived in Florida you didn't have to speak English. You could get your test in Spainish, or whatever. You only had to identify a certain number of road signs. Since these were very simple road signs (like RR crossing) I couldn't imagine why they even let you get ONE wrong (you could miss 3!). But then again Florida keeps giving my husbands great grandmother a drivers license. She's in her 90s and she still only has to take a simple eye test. The family finally took away her keys....
 
Paul C. Anagnostopoulos said:
Another problem I've noticed with my dyslexic son is that of learning abstract concepts. I don't mean reading about them; he can read that sort of material just as well as any other. It's the retention of the definitions and attributes of the concepts. A couple of examples:

He has trouble describing the difference between communism and capitalism, even though we have reviewed it many times.

He had trouble on a biology test about the components of the cell. In fairness, they introduced about a dozen of the major cell components all at once (e.g., cell membrane, nucleus, ribosome, vacuole, mitochondrion).

I can't get a grip on whether this is just a memorization problem, or something more interesting about abstract concepts. I know he has memorization issues; he didn't manage to memorize his multiplication facts after three years of trying. On the other hand, he has no trouble remembering, for example, where every object in the house is.

Has anyone else noticed this?

~~ Paul
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Difficulty in grasping the concept of concepts?
 
Yes! Me!

I can remember accurate "maps" of places in my head for years, after being there only once. Even in the USA! And I can navigate over most of Sydney (actually, Australia) without using a directory. And yet I still cannot accurately remember the names of the few streets in our little suburb... :blush:

Paul C. Anagnostopoulos said:
Another problem I've noticed with my dyslexic son is that of learning abstract concepts. I don't mean reading about them; he can read that sort of material just as well as any other. It's the retention of the definitions and attributes of the concepts. A couple of examples:

He has trouble describing the difference between communism and capitalism, even though we have reviewed it many times.

He had trouble on a biology test about the components of the cell. In fairness, they introduced about a dozen of the major cell components all at once (e.g., cell membrane, nucleus, ribosome, vacuole, mitochondrion).

I can't get a grip on whether this is just a memorization problem, or something more interesting about abstract concepts. I know he has memorization issues; he didn't manage to memorize his multiplication facts after three years of trying. On the other hand, he has no trouble remembering, for example, where every object in the house is.

Has anyone else noticed this?

~~ Paul
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Zep said:
And I can navigate over most of Sydney (actually, Australia) without using a directory. And yet I still cannot accurately remember the names of the few streets in our little suburb... :blush:
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Yeah, you said it: "Few streets".

Navigating through one-horse "Walkabout Creek" towns ain't impressive, mate... :)
 
CFLarsen said:
Yeah, you said it: "Few streets".

Navigating through one-horse "Walkabout Creek" towns ain't impressive, mate... :)
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What, you mean places like Copenhagen, our newest outpost?? ;)

(No, I'm a suburban boy - and I'm talking about the streets in the one or two blocks around home!)
 
Zep said:
What, you mean places like Copenhagen, our newest outpost?? ;)
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Your newest outpost? Get this straight, CrocBoy: You are a subject of the Danish Crown, not the other way around.

(Isn't that ultimately better than being a subject of Lizzie the Brit?)

Zep said:
(No, I'm a suburban boy - and I'm talking about the streets in the one or two blocks around home!)
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You can't find your way home from the local bar? That's not dyslexia.....
 
On the left-right driving issue, my wife also has trouble with left and right, as well as up and down, at least where language is concerned, but this has nothing to do with an inability to keep to the correct side of the road, nor does she drive upside down. She's never had an accident, either. In her case, it's more an issue of English being a second language than of any identifiable dyslexia, and though she "lost her accent" many years ago, she still gets directions mixed up.

Anyway, I can say that the danger of a person who gets directions mixed up is not particularly great when they are driving, but it can be nerve-wracking when they are navigating for another driver. It's taken a lot of practice for us when traveling, and a sense of humor helps. "Do you mean the right righ, or the other one?" "That way!" (pointing in the pitch dark...)
 
the English as a second language is interesting. My sister in law has been in Canada since she was 11. Her English is perfect, or at least she drives fine and does complex engineering/design work in English.

But when she was telling me about her new house she got "stuck". She was telling her house had a certain number of ..."What do you call it, I know the name for it in 3 languages...you know it's a box"

(I'm still clueless)

"A box in a room"

(clueless)

"A box in a room you put your stuff in".

AHA! A closet!
 
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