Resolved: Trump Era Republicans Are Uniquely Bad in American Political History

[Lurch]

A more overarching glance at the US...

A binary political system, readiness to polarization, politicization of the judiciary, a media machine dealing in an alternate reality, a political party dealing in an alternate reality, an electoral 'college' that's utterly irrelevant in the 21st century, big money in politics, the unhinged acceptance of a practically divine right to gun ownership, privatization of the prison system, a two-tier justice system, an accelerating wealth divide reminiscent of the 1920s, a political party engaged in outright electoral shenanigans.

The Ds and least claim to want to redress much of this this. The Rs want the status quo.

To keep this dangerous situation a-bubbling is to be unhinged.

 

[thaiboxerken]

A more overarching glance at the US...

A binary political system, readiness to polarization, politicization of the judiciary, a media machine dealing in an alternate reality, a political party dealing in an alternate reality, an electoral 'college' that's utterly irrelevant in the 21st century, big money in politics, the unhinged acceptance of a practically divine right to gun ownership, privatization of the prison system, a two-tier justice system, an accelerating wealth divide reminiscent of the 1920s, a political party engaged in outright electoral shenanigans.

The Ds and least claim to want to redress much of this this. The Rs want the status quo.

To keep this dangerous situation a-bubbling is to be unhinged.

Yes, and the end-game of Republicans is a dictatorship Russian-style democracy.

 

[Craig4]

As an avid "Trumper" I find your lack of enthusiasm for our current POTUS disheartening.

Delete.

 

[luchog]

Yes, and the end-game of Republicans is a dictatorship Russian-style democracy.

The end goal of Republicans is actually twofold: The majority want an oligarchy run by and for the benefit of old white men, and the return of slavery; most of the rest want a Dominionist Christian theocracy.

 

[phiwum]

The end goal of Republicans is actually twofold: The majority want an oligarchy run by and for the benefit of old white men, and the return of slavery; most of the rest want a Dominionist Christian theocracy.

I really don't think this kind of hyperbole is useful.

It's despicable when the Republicans recast their political opponents as the enemy. It's equally despicable when the opposition does the same. A return to slavery. Jeez, Louise. They must sure be bad.

 

[luchog]

I really don't think this kind of hyperbole is useful.

I was raised a Religious Right Republican. I've heard all the crap that goes on behind the scenes, that never made it in front of the news cameras. Want to take a guess at how many Republicans buy into the "Black people were better off under slavery than they were in Africa" canard?

It's despicable when the Republicans recast their political opponents as the enemy. It's equally despicable when the opposition does the same. A return to slavery. Jeez, Louise. They must sure be bad.

You really don't have much understanding of American culture, do you. Do you remember ever reading about Jim Crow? Have you been paying attention to the efforts that the GOP has been making to suppress minority voters, to roll back civil rights under the guise of "religious freedom" legislation? Have you missed all the immigrants stuff in concentration camps, with their children stripped from them, then incarcerated into forced-labour camps aka "for-profit prisons", clearly echoing how slave traders treated African people back before the Civil War? Have you completely missed the "school-to-prison pipeline" that has been developed over the last fifty years, and the use of forced prison labour in a huge number of US industries? The use of draconian financial penalties and debtor legislation to ensure that poor minorities end up back in prison as soon as as they're released, effectively re-creating the "work house" of former eras?

The widening financial divide between the rich and poor, the fact that three people own more wealth than the bottom 50% of the country, the rapidly disappearing middle class, tax legislation that increasingly benefits the wealthy, the GOP's ongoing attempts to eliminate healthcare and social security programs, their constantly demonizing of anyone receiving any public assistance at all as lazy leeches and "welfare queens"? Their idolization of the sociopathic greed of Ayn Rand's Objectivist philosophy?

Maybe "slavery" is a bit of hyperbole, perhaps "feudalism" is a more appropriate description; but to me that's really a distinction without a practical difference at this point in time.

Stating it plain, clear terms may not be "useful" to reactionaries and their useful idiots; but euphemising and denying the bleeding obvious is certainly not useful for anyone seeking to make real social change.

 

[phiwum]

I was raised a Religious Right Republican. I've heard all the crap that goes on behind the scenes, that never made it in front of the news cameras. Want to take a guess at how many Republicans buy into the "Black people were better off under slavery than they were in Africa" canard?




You really don't have much understanding of American culture, do you. Do you remember ever reading about Jim Crow? Have you been paying attention to the efforts that the GOP has been making to suppress minority voters, to roll back civil rights under the guise of "religious freedom" legislation? Have you missed all the immigrants stuff in concentration camps, with their children stripped from them, then incarcerated into forced-labour camps aka "for-profit prisons", clearly echoing how slave traders treated African people back before the Civil War? Have you completely missed the "school-to-prison pipeline" that has been developed over the last fifty years, and the use of forced prison labour in a huge number of US industries? The use of draconian financial penalties and debtor legislation to ensure that poor minorities end up back in prison as soon as as they're released, effectively re-creating the "work house" of former eras?

The widening financial divide between the rich and poor, the fact that three people own more wealth than the bottom 50% of the country, the rapidly disappearing middle class, tax legislation that increasingly benefits the wealthy, the GOP's ongoing attempts to eliminate healthcare and social security programs, their constantly demonizing of anyone receiving any public assistance at all as lazy leeches and "welfare queens"? Their idolization of the sociopathic greed of Ayn Rand's Objectivist philosophy?

Maybe "slavery" is a bit of hyperbole, perhaps "feudalism" is a more appropriate description; but to me that's really a distinction without a practical difference at this point in time.

Stating it plain, clear terms may not be "useful" to reactionaries and their useful idiots; but euphemising and denying the bleeding obvious is certainly not useful for anyone seeking to make real social change.

Yeah, I get that you're enlightened and ****, the only poster here raised in a religious right household (evidently my family doesn't count). You go ahead and speak truth to power and I'll continue under the presumption that the other side isn't literally evil for the most part.

Sorry you wasted your pearls on swine.

 

[thaiboxerken]

I really don't think this kind of hyperbole is useful.

It isn't hyperbolic.

 

[luchog]

Yeah, I get that you're enlightened and ****, the only poster here raised in a religious right household (evidently my family doesn't count). You go ahead and speak truth to power and I'll continue under the presumption that the other side isn't literally evil for the most part.

Sorry you wasted your pearls on swine.

Personal attacks are the resort of those who cannot address the actual points being made.

 

[Ziggurat]

Personal attacks are the resort of those who cannot address the actual points being made.

Your entire post was basically a personal attack. You managed to stay within the membership agreement by sufficiently expanding the target of that attack, but in substance how is that any different?

But let's make the criticism of your post itself a little more substantive. Your post is self-contradictory. You're positing people who are both religious fundamentalists and Ayn Rand devotees. These are separate groups, for the rather obvious reason that these ideas are incompatible. Rand's philosophy is inherently anti-religious. You cannot simultaneously be a Christian fundamentalist and a Randian Objectivist.

 

[Parsman]

Your entire post was basically a personal attack. You managed to stay within the membership agreement by sufficiently expanding the target of that attack, but in substance how is that any different?

But let's make the criticism of your post itself a little more substantive. Your post is self-contradictory. You're positing people who are both religious fundamentalists and Ayn Rand devotees. These are separate groups, for the rather obvious reason that these ideas are incompatible. Rand's philosophy is inherently anti-religious. You cannot simultaneously be a Christian fundamentalist and a Randian Objectivist.

I think you are over stating the exclusiveness of groupings within political parties. Despite his philandering, his lies, his corruption and his bigotry Trump still seems very popular with the evangelical wing of the GOP. By rights his performance should be incompatible with their beliefs and ideas. So a bit of hypocrisy by Rand followers or Christians with regard to the other POV within the GOP wouldn't be too surprising.

 

[Ziggurat]

I think you are over stating the exclusiveness of groupings within political parties. Despite his philandering, his lies, his corruption and his bigotry Trump still seems very popular with the evangelical wing of the GOP. By rights his performance should be incompatible with their beliefs and ideas. So

Your own position isn't compatible with luchog's. To the extent that a group either tolerates deviation from their beliefs or doesn't even hold them genuinely to begin with, then luchog's description simply doesn't apply.

 

[The Great Zaganza]

Since neither Rand fanboys nor Evangelicals understand their own ideology, they have no problem conflating the two.

 

[Ziggurat]

Since neither Rand fanboys nor Evangelicals understand their own ideology, they have no problem conflating the two.

Now you're just making excuses for a bad argument.

 

[WilliamSeger]

I think you are over stating the exclusiveness of groupings within political parties. Despite his philandering, his lies, his corruption and his bigotry Trump still seems very popular with the evangelical wing of the GOP. By rights his performance should be incompatible with their beliefs and ideas. So a bit of hypocrisy by Rand followers or Christians with regard to the other POV within the GOP wouldn't be too surprising.

Evangelicals have a rather particular viewpoint which isn't quite ordinary hypocrisy. They believe that everyone is a sinner, but only evangelicals will be forgiven and saved. If they can convince themselves that Trump is an evangelical while Obama is a secret Muslim (or just a liberal, really), then behavior be damned, if God will forgive Trump but not Obama, then of course they should too.

 

[uke2se]

Yeah, I get that you're enlightened and ****, the only poster here raised in a religious right household (evidently my family doesn't count). You go ahead and speak truth to power and I'll continue under the presumption that the other side isn't literally evil for the most part.

Sorry you wasted your pearls on swine.

You are right. Slavery is probably hyperbolic (at least for poor whites). Serfdom is more correct.

As for the other side being "evil", I guess only from the perspective of a proponent of liberal Democracy. Conservatism as a movement was after all founded in order to perpetuate aristocratic rule as monarchies fell.

 

[ponderingturtle]

I think you are over stating the exclusiveness of groupings within political parties. Despite his philandering, his lies, his corruption and his bigotry Trump still seems very popular with the evangelical wing of the GOP. By rights his performance should be incompatible with their beliefs and ideas. So a bit of hypocrisy by Rand followers or Christians with regard to the other POV within the GOP wouldn't be too surprising.

At least the bigotry is a plus with them not a minus.

 

[phiwum]

You are right. Slavery is probably hyperbolic (at least for poor whites). Serfdom is more correct.

As for the other side being "evil", I guess only from the perspective of a proponent of liberal Democracy. Conservatism as a movement was after all founded in order to perpetuate aristocratic rule as monarchies fell.

The long history of conservatism has little to do with contemporry US conservatives. You might as well say that the GOP is the party of minority rights since they rose with the election of Lincoln.

Let's not demonize one side of the political spectrum. It's totally fair to point out that they've accepted an amoral con man as their leader and they should be ashamed. It's another to say they all want slavery and/or theocracy.

 

[ponderingturtle]

The long history of conservatism has little to do with contemporry US conservatives. You might as well say that the GOP is the party of minority rights since they rose with the election of Lincoln.

Let's not demonize one side of the political spectrum. It's totally fair to point out that they've accepted an amoral con man as their leader and they should be ashamed. It's another to say they all want slavery and/or theocracy.

Um christian dominionism is pretty common in republican circles, so they certainly are not against theocracy.

Look at the state department for this in practice.

 

[The Great Zaganza]

Um christian dominionism is pretty common in republican circles, so they certainly are not against theocracy.

Look at the state department for this in practice.

Or the Head of the DOJ.