Split Thread Scorpion's Spiritualism

[Darat]

People in the spirit world experience it as real. In fact Silver Birch says the spirit world is the real world, and our world is the illusion. I have heard it said the light in the spirit world apparently comes from above, but not from a sun. It never gets dark in the higher realms.

So Silver Birch is back to being a reliable source of knowledge of the spirit world.... ?

Does that mean we can go back to quoting "his" teachings to you to show how you and him disagree?

 

[Darat]

Yes, my brother grew up to maturity in the spirit world, and for all I know he might have chosen to reincarnate again by now. But people can sometimes spend a long time in the spirit world between incarnations. It could be hundreds of earth years before some spirits choose to reincarnate.

Opps you forgot your bit about how when we die we get access to the memories of past lives and so on, so when your brother died he according to you wouldn't be a baby in the spirit world.

 

[Darat]

So the spirit world has a hard monetary cap for what is "allowable monetary deprivation" and what is "forbidden monetary deprivation"?

And thankfully for Scorpion that amount totally coincidentally is the exact amount he needed to buy his computer and pay of his credit card.

Scorpion - is this limit indexed linked, based on RPI or CPI?

 

[Matthew Ellard]

The immortal spirit is created by God, therefore it figures that spirits do not reproduce.

God created the holy spirit.... that knocked up Mary, behind Joseph's back.

 

[Thor 2]

God created the holy spirit.... that knocked up Mary, behind Joseph's back.

Wow! A follower of Arianism in our midst. Watch out the Catholics and others will be after you for speaking heresy. The Father, Son, and Holy Ghost were always there according to them. Those pesky Adrians were put in their place centuries ago.

 

[jrhowell]

The Chinese guide of my friend Trevor Williams once said through him that sex is neutral in the spirit world.

Did he speak in a Charlie Chan accent? "Confucius say, Sleep only escape from yesterday."

 

[abaddon]

Reincarnation is ruled over by the angels of karma. They are immortal beings that have never incarnated, and they do not have wings, they travel by teleporting themselves instantly to their destination. They are dispassionate and do not hesitate to send us into harsh circumstances because they know the immortal soul benefits from all kinds of experiences.

Which conveniently allows you to not only condone any cruelty, savagery or debased behaviour as a karmic debt, you can extend it to child abuse being a good thing. In your mad universe, the child needed the lesson to be garnered from the trauma of being abused, and the perpetrator also necessarily had to do it because of some other lesson or karmic debt. Do you not see where this leads?

It is obvious to everyone else, but do you see it?

The present world is too far advanced for new souls to incarnate here but they may incarnate on other worlds at an earlier stage of development.

Thus, perforce, every baby born is de facto got previous lives already built in but conveniently, you have set up the "rules" so that they remember none of the previous incarnations.

Isn't that really convenient. Yet when challenged on this unevidenced claim, you look to supposed cases of various people either remembering past lives, or "mediums" transmitting such recollections from "spirits".

It really doesn't matter because suddenly, when convenient, the inviolate
"rules" become mere....guidelines.

I once asked a medium who was in trance if animals evolve to be human and she said "no" All species are evolving in their own right. Humans do not descend into animals, that would be pointless regression.

How can you possibly know that a soul's karma would not be best served by reincarnating as a petunia for a while? Not to mention that plenty of mediums are quite happy with the notion that one might reincarnate as a pot plant. They cannot all be right, but they certainly can all be wrong.

I think we have a choice whether to incarnate or not, but since we cannot progress in the spirit world, incarnation is a given.
That is until we reach an enlightened state of evolution after which we need no further incarnations. Then we continue to evolve to higher planes of existence. I have heard it said nobody knows what happens in the highest realms because nobody comes back from them. All the spirit guides that come back to teach are at a lower level and are working off karma by serving behind the scenes to help advance humanity. They say humanity is at a level of evolution which equates to kindergarten and we have not yet become all that we can be. It may take the human race another million years or so.

Interestingly, after I departed the RCC many years ago, I invested in such Ideas. I grew out of it. Why didn't you?

There are many higher realms and we go to the one that our spiritual evolution best suits us for when we die. Some people talk of seven planes, but I have heard there are many more. There are dark lower realms where evil people go, and they have to repent and choose reincarnation to get out of those realms. They cannot invade higher realms as they cannot bear the light or the rarified atmosphere of higher levels. But people from higher realms can visit people in lower realms if they want to.

And it is this style of crapola that forced me to abandon the whole notion. I actually tested this once. After I had concluded that the entire lot was a collection of "just so" inventions, I started chucking rational, scientific challenges in the way. Then I went a step further, and literally made stuff up on the fly out of whole cloth as pseudo explanations. And the gullible simply agreed with whatever I simply made up. If you want enlightenment of the imaginary soul, that was it in action. I stopped because I had established the point and going further would be salt in the wound, but I am certain I could have proposed pretty much anything and argued it into acceptance.

There is supposedly a brotherhood of enlightened souls who oversee what happens in this world, and work with the angels.

"Supposedly"? Aren't you supposed to know?

They are working their passage, and eventually leave the earth behind.

So does everyone leave the earth behind. Because they are DEAD. <inevitable parrot sketch here>

See, I can still do a good job of constructing this "just so" version with a solid logical basis that will still convince at least some people. Hell, I have tried it out on my kids for shiggles, but also to teach them to spot the multiple fallacies. Now the simple fact is that they are even more godless heathens than I, but I was still able to stump them.

In fairness, I forewarned them that while superficially plausible, I was basically lying. Their task was to spot the flaws. It was a fun learning experience for them and for me.

The interesting thing is that the pseudo position I assumed (and once sort of believed) is identical to what you now post. I could not only match your arguments for the spirit world, I could provide better.

This is, of course, something I do not do unless it is first made clear that I am making it all up on the fly for the purpose of the cut and thrust of debate for it's own sake.

Indeed, I could read your Tarot, cast your astrological natal chart, use the I Ching or runes or read your aura or balance your chakras or induce a past life regression or a good few more superstitions and amaze you with my ability to connect to the spirit world.

None of it is real. Amazingly, even though I tell people that
I am making all of it up out front, people still ask me how I can be so accurate. They somehow don't want to know it is fake, they want to believe at all costs.

And that is exactly where you are. You want to believe at all costs. And that's just a little sad.

 

[Scorpion]

Opps you forgot your bit about how when we die we get access to the memories of past lives and so on, so when your brother died he according to you wouldn't be a baby in the spirit world.

As far as I know from mediums, baby's that die grow up in the spirit world.
Anyone that dies does not automatically have access to memories of past lives.
I have read that just before reincarnation a spirit might get a glimpse of them, and of the life to come. But as a rule only enlightened souls that have completed their cycle of incarnations have full access to memory of past lives.

 

[Scorpion]

Can you elaborate on the above contradiction that supposedly exists in the spirit world? You state that the spirit world does NOT want to provide proof of its existence because that would defeat the very object of incarnation, but then you state that spirits want to get the message through that life goes on and there is a better world after this one.

Which is it? Does the spirit world not want to interfere with the choice of incarnation or does it?

In these dangerous times the spirit world would doubtlessly like to comfort as many people as they can. But belief remains largely a matter of faith. The spirit world are unlikely to give absolute scientific proof of their existence, as that would interfere with the worlds karma.

 

[Scorpion]

And thankfully for Scorpion that amount totally coincidentally is the exact amount he needed to buy his computer and pay of his credit card.

Scorpion - is this limit indexed linked, based on RPI or CPI?

I believe the spirit world made a special dispensation of money to me. because in the scale of the lottery it was not much money and it made no difference to other winners. I won £1182 with five numbers, and the six number win was £20 million. Actually that week in 1998 there were a lot of winners, and the 20M was divided between them. The money I won would have made no difference to them but it made a big difference to me.

I have tried to get the spirits to give me the lottery numbers ever since because I know they can. But they obviously will not give me a big win or they would have done it by now. It would be karmic, and in any case I do not need any money.

 

[Gamolon]

In these dangerous times the spirit world would doubtlessly like to comfort as many people as they can. But belief remains largely a matter of faith. The spirit world are unlikely to give absolute scientific proof of their existence, as that would interfere with the worlds karma.

You didn't answer my question Scorpion.

If the spirit world does not want to give proof to anyone that it exists because it would interfere with incarnation, then why is it communicating through and to various people?

What you're telling me is that the governing body of the spirit world does not want anyone to know they exist because it would interfere with incarnation, yet there is a rogue spirit element that goes against this law/rule because they feel they need to comfort people.

Do I have this correct?

 

[Gamolon]

I believe the spirit world made a special dispensation of money to me. because in the scale of the lottery it was not much money and it made no difference to other winners.

It has nothing to the other winners.

It has to do with the spirit that gave you the numbers took that money from someone who SHOULD have won or could have used the money more than you. All because a spirit decided that spreading the word about the existence of the spirit world and comforting people here on earth was worth breaking the spirit law of not presenting evidence to people as it would interfere with incarnation AND taking money from someone else who needed it more to further it's beliefs.

 

[Gamolon]

In these dangerous times the spirit world would doubtlessly like to comfort as many people as they can.

I thought being here on earth was all about free will and making our own choices without interference from the spirit world?

 

[Gamolon]

In these dangerous times the spirit world would doubtlessly like to comfort as many people as they can. But belief remains largely a matter of faith. The spirit world are unlikely to give absolute scientific proof of their existence, as that would interfere with the worlds karma.

I see.

So communicating with people through mediums, which is proof to both of them, is NOT interfering with the worlds karma in any way? It's NOT influencing anyone when we are supposed to make our own decisions here on earth with no interference?

 

[Gamolon]

I have tried to get the spirits to give me the lottery numbers ever since because I know they can.

So you KNEW it was wrong from a karmic standpoint, that the spirits shouldn't be doing it, but you kept asking anyways...

 

[Darat]

As far as I know from mediums, baby's that die grow up in the spirit world.
Anyone that dies does not automatically have access to memories of past lives.
I have read that just before reincarnation a spirit might get a glimpse of them, and of the life to come. But as a rule only enlightened souls that have completed their cycle of incarnations have full access to memory of past lives.

Good god man your beliefs get even more horrendous! So no only does the 3 year old tortured and raped and killed by the solders not only suffer in this life, the suffering and hurt and harm continues into the next!

 

[Darat]

In these dangerous times the spirit world would doubtlessly like to comfort as many people as they can. But belief remains largely a matter of faith. The spirit world are unlikely to give absolute scientific proof of their existence, as that would interfere with the worlds karma.

Apart from when it doesn't i.e. to give you just enough money for your new computer and pay off your credit card bill.

 

[Darat]

You didn't answer my question Scorpion.

...snip...

Get used to it. He simply won't answer questions, it is not for no reasons there are many stories of wearing onions because that was the style at the time in this thread!

 

[Darat]

You didn't answer my question Scorpion.

If the spirit world does not want to give proof to anyone that it exists because it would interfere with incarnation, then why is it communicating through and to various people?

What you're telling me is that the governing body of the spirit world does not want anyone to know they exist because it would interfere with incarnation, yet there is a rogue spirit element that goes against this law/rule because they feel they need to comfort people.

Do I have this correct?

Well according to the authority that Scorpion often likes to cite (but also likes to disown it when it is rather inconvenient) Silver Birch (the Native American spirit that lied to his meat puppet and followers for decades about being a Native American spirit) it is not a rogue element that reveals this, it is the most evolved and "highest" spirits....

 

[steenkh]

Their "appearance" is in a clothed state then I assume, so you can't see if the sexual bits are missing.

Quite interesting that the spirits apparently are clothed. I wonder why? I assume that in the paradise spirit world, the temperature is always perfect, and because they have no libido, there is no reason to cover their sexual organs if they have any.