Split Thread Scorpion's Spiritualism

[Scorpion]

Fascinating.You sure know a lot of details about this stuff. So tell me, who, exactly organizes all this reincarnation and decides where and what each spirit will be reincarnated into. Are all people (and aliens ) alive today reincarnations or are some still originals? Is reincarnation is not necessarily restricted to humans (ie; aliens)? Can humans be reincarnated as animals? Can animals be reincarnated as humans (this would explain so much!)? Is reincarnation optional, or do spirits have to go where they are sent? Can you identify at least one other planet that contains reincarnated human spirits?

How many higher mental realms are there? Just one? Or does each higher realm have another above that. Who decides which spirit qualifies for which realm?

So many decisions have to be made. There must be quite the spirit bureaucracy to keep on top of all this. Do these spirit bureaucrats have an opportunity to be reincarnated, or are they stuck in these drudge civil (spirit?) service jobs for all eternity?

You have opened a whole new world of ideas for me and the questions keep flooding into my brain. More questions will follow but please start with these answers for now.

Reincarnation is ruled over by the angels of karma. They are immortal beings that have never incarnated, and they do not have wings, they travel by teleporting themselves instantly to their destination. They are dispassionate and do not hesitate to send us into harsh circumstances because they know the immortal soul benefits from all kinds of experiences.

The present world is too far advanced for new souls to incarnate here but they may incarnate on other worlds at an earlier stage of development.

I once asked a medium who was in trance if animals evolve to be human and she said "no" All species are evolving in their own right. Humans do not descend into animals, that would be pointless regression.

I think we have a choice whether to incarnate or not, but since we cannot progress in the spirit world, incarnation is a given.
That is until we reach an enlightened state of evolution after which we need no further incarnations. Then we continue to evolve to higher planes of existence. I have heard it said nobody knows what happens in the highest realms because nobody comes back from them. All the spirit guides that come back to teach are at a lower level and are working off karma by serving behind the scenes to help advance humanity. They say humanity is at a level of evolution which equates to kindergarten and we have not yet become all that we can be. It may take the human race another million years or so.

There are many higher realms and we go to the one that our spiritual evolution best suits us for when we die. Some people talk of seven planes, but I have heard there are many more. There are dark lower realms where evil people go, and they have to repent and choose reincarnation to get out of those realms. They cannot invade higher realms as they cannot bear the light or the rarified atmosphere of higher levels. But people from higher realms can visit people in lower realms if they want to.

There is supposedly a brotherhood of enlightened souls who oversee what happens in this world, and work with the angels. They are working their passage, and eventually leave the earth behind.

 

[Scorpion]

By what authority and evidence is all that said? I can find no end of things that are merely said. I want to know what efforts the sayers and listeners went to in order to ascertain the truth of what was said.

I attended many trance lectures by various mediums, and I just relate some of what I heard them say.

 

[Scorpion]

And this is where your cock-eyed spiritual crankery leads you. The last two world wars were a good thing. You don't see a problem with that?

I don't say they were a good thing, I say that good comes out of them. Some karma is paid by sacrifice. People are tried and tested in wars, and make progress that could not be made by a quiet life. Suffering forces growth and changes in the soul.

 

[JayUtah]

It really is a case of making up whatever sounds most appealing, isn't it? No attempt is made to justify any of it. It's just "what would you most like to believe? OK, that's what the spirits told me".

Sometimes it's just what sounds good in the moment, even if if contradicts what someone else wants or what you yourself wanted last week. Incarnation is great on Monday, so on Monday we have reincarnation to allow people to run back, get in line, and go on the roller coaster again. But last Friday the sentiment was that life is hard and people who have left this life have gone on to a better life. Today Scorpion says

It is said there is a long queue if spirits wanting to incarnate on this planet at this time, because our progress as a civilisation offers great opportunity for advancement. Even the last two world wars were an opportunity to resolve karma.

Okay, lots of terrestrial carnage is apparently good because it lets the line move faster. More people get to ride on the roller coaster in some given amount of time. But when Scorpion talks about his mother's own wartime loss, the tune sounds very different.

My mother did not want me to get involved with spiritualists, and she shut her mind to it. She was probably a little shocked when I told her I got a message from her baby, who said he had grown up in the spirit world.

In that version, the roller coaster broke down, so little Lawrence got yanked out in infancy and apparently had to go to the back of the line. Oh, but no problem -- he can "grow up" in the spirit world, whereas apparently other spirits have to wait for incarnation in order to achieve full enlightenment. Not even Scorpion can keep all the rules straight.

BTW, the notion of "spirits waiting to come to Earth" and "Earth is such a wonderful place" is fairly run-of-the-mill 19th century spiritualism. A number of churches that formed during that period glommed onto it. It's hard to argue that your wisdom was dispensed from heaven when it has a fairly mundane, easily learned-of origin.

How many higher mental realms are there? Just one? Or does each higher realm have another above that. Who decides which spirit qualifies for which realm?

Again, all questions mused upon in the mid 19th century. Some of the various attempts to answer it have persisted in modern religions.

So many decisions have to be made. There must be quite the spirit bureaucracy to keep on top of all this.

Yeah, that's really what it comes down to. The spiritualists tell us the spirit world is so wonderful and perfect that we have to be kept in the dark about it. Unless, of course, you're a medium. If you are, then you're just so much more enlightened than the rest of the world, so you can endure those wonderful truths without your tiny brain exploding. Oh, but you don't get to reach full enlightenment unless you get to Earth. Unless you're little Lawrence, in which case the medium says he gets a pass. The more details that are provided, the more this system seems an unholy ad hoc mess.

There must be an entire Department of Personalities. Little Lawrence got to keep the personality he had in 1940s after his death, so that he could come back to Madam Liotta in the 1970s and announce that he was just fine, having apparently become a 30-year-old spirit man instead of the infant. Or rather, since infants don't have much of a personality, he managed to develop one on his own in the spirit world. And where does that fit into reincarnation, where -- even according to the people who believe in it -- you typically don't remember anything about your prior lives. You'd need a whole bunch of office workers whose job it is to determine what you're allowed to remember, or not, from different discrete, disjoint segments of your spirit's apparently eternal life.

And we haven't even started about the organization needed to dispatch the spirits to visit all those slumber parties, or give advice through the Tarot cards, or tell people what lottery numbers to choose in order to buy a printer.

 

[JayUtah]

I don't say they were a good thing, I say that good comes out of them. Some karma is paid by sacrifice. People are tried and tested in wars, and make progress that could not be made by a quiet life. Suffering forces growth and changes in the soul.

Yeah, you're still saying war is a good thing. Pass.

 

[JayUtah]

I attended many trance lectures by various mediums, and I just relate some of what I heard them say.

That really doesn't answer my question. What you're telling me here is that people told you stories and you just believed them.

 

[JayUtah]

Reincarnation is ruled over by the angels of karma.

Are they related to Tokien's wood elves?

I once asked a medium who was in trance...

How did you determine it wasn't a fake medium just pretending to be in a trance?

I think we have a choice whether to incarnate or not, but since we cannot progress in the spirit world, incarnation is a given.

You said your baby brother Lawrence "grew up" in the spirit world. Reconcile your claims, please.

All the spirit guides that come back to teach are at a lower level and are working off karma by serving behind the scenes to help advance humanity. They say humanity is at a level of evolution which equates to kindergarten...

With enlightened beings to be at its beck and call. Do you even listen to yourself when you make this stuff up?

They cannot invade higher realms as they cannot bear the light or the rarified atmosphere of higher levels.

Ooh, I have a lot of experience in space and the engineering required to get there and do stuff in it. What is this "light" coming from? What gases is this "rarefied atmosphere" made of?

 

[Scorpion]

Yes, my brother grew up to maturity in the spirit world, and for all I know he might have chosen to reincarnate again by now. But people can sometimes spend a long time in the spirit world between incarnations. It could be hundreds of earth years before some spirits choose to reincarnate.

 

[Scorpion]

How did you determine it wasn't a fake medium just pretending to be in a trance

I cannot be sure if the medium was genuine or not.

Ooh, I have a lot of experience in space and the engineering required to get there and do stuff in it. What is this "light" coming from? What gases is this "rarefied atmosphere" made of?

Clearly if there is a spirit world it is not made of physical stuff, or whatever stuff it is made of is above the physical realm.

 

[JayUtah]

Yes, my brother grew up to maturity in the spirit world, and for all I know he might have chosen to reincarnate again by now. But people can sometimes spend a long time in the spirit world between incarnations. It could be hundreds of earth years before some spirits choose to reincarnate.

You didn't reconcile the claims. You just restated one of them. Define precisely what it means to "grow up to maturity in the spirit world" and reconcile that with the need for reincarnation to occur in order to achieve maturity.

 

[JayUtah]

I cannot be sure if the medium was genuine or not.

Then how can you be sure there are any genuine mediums? You admit there are fake ones. And you're telling me you can't tell the difference. Even worse, what these people are telling you form, according to you, your core of unshakable beliefs, the ones you re-assert every time a contrary fact appears.

Your belief system is an utter ad hoc disaster.

Clearly if there is a spirit world it is not made of physical stuff...

Why clearly? If you can't tell me precisely what and where the spirit world is, then how can you assert anything "clearly" regarding what its properties are? If now you're asserting that the spirit world obeys a different set of physical laws, why did you invoke ordinary concepts such as bright lights and rarefied atmospheres to describe its supposed hazards?

You see, it's obvious that you're just making this stuff up on the fly. You don't actually know any more about any "spirit world" than I do.

 

[Scorpion]

People in the spirit world experience it as real. In fact Silver Birch says the spirit world is the real world, and our world is the illusion. I have heard it said the light in the spirit world apparently comes from above, but not from a sun. It never gets dark in the higher realms.

 

[JayUtah]

People in the spirit world experience it as real.

I didn't ask how it was perceived. I asked about how you can be simultaneously foggy and certain about its properties. You're certain when you need your invented world to have detail, and you're foggy when those details don't add up. Make up your mind.

In fact Silver Birch says the spirit world is the real world, and our world is the illusion.

But we experience it as real, so your propose differenced is without distinction. It's just lofty-sounding coffeehouse gobbledygook. No, I don't believe Silver Birch knows anything more about any spirit world than I do.

I have heard it said...

By whom, and according to what evidence? More "genuine" mediums in a "trance?"

 

[Scorpion]

You didn't reconcile the claims. You just restated one of them. Define precisely what it means to "grow up to maturity in the spirit world" and reconcile that with the need for reincarnation to occur in order to achieve maturity.

Maturity is a state of being, but we need to reincarnate for our souls to grow to a higher stage of evolution. We may reincarnate as many as thousands of times in our cycle of spiritual development. Obviously a soul that has had thousands of lives will have qualities far in advance of someone who only lived once. Those qualities would show through as aspects of the personality even though we do not remember our past lives until after our final incarnation. In our time we may incarnate on many different planets, which are at the stage of civilisation that most suits the needs of our soul. As I said there is a rush to incarnate here at the present time because of the opportunity for advancement. There have been times where nothing much changed for centuries. But the current development of our planet is rapid.

 

[JayUtah]

Maturity is a state of being...

In exactly what state of being you claim your infant brother grew between the time he died and the time he spoke to the medium? Be as specific as your evidence allows.

 

[P.J. Denyer]

Are they related to Tokien's wood elves?

Nah, they were a Seventies prog-rock band. I'm pretty sure I have their first album on vinyl somewhere.

 

[P.J. Denyer]

Why clearly? If you can't tell me precisely what and where the spirit world is, then how can you assert anything "clearly" regarding what its properties are? If now you're asserting that the spirit world obeys a different set of physical laws, why did you invoke ordinary concepts such as bright lights and rarefied atmospheres to describe its supposed hazards?

You see, it's obvious that you're just making this stuff up on the fly. You don't actually know any more about any "spirit world" than I do.

Vibration [mutter] energy [cough] frequency [mumble] quantum [extended coughing fit].....

 

[Scorpion]

In exactly what state of being you claim your infant brother grew between the time he died and the time he spoke to the medium? Be as specific as your evidence allows.

The medium told me my brother was standing next to her and he looked just like me. He said the stuff about how he died, but he also went on to say he was studying in the spirit world, and developing his mind. He advised me to do the same, rather than being ruled by my emotions. He also said he had lots of girlfriends.

That is all I know about him.

 

[Pixel42]

You don't know any of that, Scorpion. You may believe it, but you don't know it.

 

[Hungry81]

The medium told me my brother was standing next to her and he looked just like me. He said the stuff about how he died, but he also went on to say he was studying in the spirit world, and developing his mind. He advised me to do the same, rather than being ruled by my emotions. He also said he had lots of girlfriends.



That is all I know about him.

Why do spirits need girlfriends or boyfriends? Spirits do not have physical bodies, hormones or an ability to reproduce. Sounds like more wish fulfilment. Also its not very imaginative that she just claimed he looked like you. Were there no aesthetic differences?