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The Trials of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito: Part 29

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LondonJohn said:
1) Hmmmm, your attempted analogy looks a little..... irrelevant?

2) Again, please read what I actually wrote. My post was written a) to counteract your specious claim that high RFUs imply blood; b) to explain to you that RFUs are nothing more than a measure of the reliability of a DNA profile in relation to background noise, and thus in effect they are a measure of the "purity" of a DNA-bearing sample (irrespective of what tissue/fluid that sample comes from); and c) to explain to you that the actual height of RFUs on an output chart are simply a function of how and by how much the lab analyst has chosen to amplify the sample in the machine - therefore "high peaks" are meaningless in and of themselves; what matters is the height of those peaks relative to the height of background peaks*


* And while we're on that topic, this is one of the very many mistakes Stefanoni made in the lab: she cranked up the amplification (well beyond the manufacturer's recommended upper limit) to get the "high peaks" she desired, but of course this also raised the peaks of the background noise - to a level which effectively invalidated the reliability of the subject peaks. What a surprise........
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Eminent forensic professor Torre who was present as the defence expert witness did not complain. The defence can make an application to the court at any time (in fact, any of the parties can) should they have any legal concerns. The defence had none at all.

PS Please can you stop using that horrible phrase, 'in and of itself'.
 
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Rolfe said:
Have we got any closer to understanding that males have X chromosomes yet? :whistling
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Look, I am sorry you see this as brinkmanship but if you are male and you want to know the haplotype of your maternal line, unfortunately, you will have to get your mother, grandmother or natural sister to do the DNA test to find out. Likewise, a female will need to get her dad, or brother to do his if she wants to know what her male line haplotype is.

You are most welcome to mislead Numbers into thinking he (if Numbers is male but could well be a she) can discover his mtDNA haplotype via a DNA test.

But never in a million years can you bring yourself to admit this is correct.
 
Rolfe said:
Have we got any closer to understanding that males have X chromosomes yet? :whistling


Sorry, I cross-posted that.

You've just pointed out that you can only do a test which requires a Y chromosome on males, which is perfectly correct. However, as you also (belatedly) admitted, males also have an X chromosome. So can you work that a bit further?
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Oh, riddle-mee-ree, riddle-mee-ree, pray do tell, what the answer may be?
 
Vixen said:
Look, I am sorry you see this as brinkmanship but if you are male and you want to know the haplotype of your maternal line, unfortunately, you will have to get your mother, grandmother or natural sister to do the DNA test to find out. Likewise, a female will need to get her dad, or brother to do his if she wants to know what her male line haplotype is.

You are most welcome to mislead Numbers into thinking he (if Numbers is male but could well be a she) can discover his mtDNA haplotype via a DNA test.

But never in a million years can you bring yourself to admit this is correct.
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Please point out where in your post which began this particular digression you even mentioned anyone wanting to discover their mtDNA haplotype?

Vixen said:
Only female DNA can be identified from mtDNA (mitochodria) as only females have the X chromosome from which the mtDNA is extracted. Likewise only males can have Y-haplotypes identified as it carries down from the male line. If you want to know the mtDA background ask your mother or sister to be tested and that will tell you, likewise females can find out about the male line via their father or brother.
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You specifically stated that only females have an X chromosome, which is laughably wrong.

Only females have a paternal X chromosome, whereas males only have a maternal X chromosome. So yes, if a male wants to find out about his paternal line he will have to find a suitable female relative. He already has all the material he needs to investigate his maternal line.

This is so far from what you originally posted that it's doubtful if it's in the same galaxy. The amount of goal-post-shifting going on is phenomenal. But never in a million years will you bring yourself to realise that your posts on this issue are full of elementary errors.
 
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Vixen said:
Really? Are you trying to imply males can be tested for mtDNA?


Shocking the level of subterfuge you will adopt.
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Vixen,
Males have mitochondrial DNA. Thus they can be tested for it. mtDNA is only inherited maternally. That doesn't mean males don't have it.

Honestly, can you please just stop? Read a damn book.
 
Rolfe said:
Please point out where in your post which began this particular digression you even mentioned anyone wanting to discover their mtDNA haplotype?




You specifically stated that only females have an X chromosome, which is laughably wrong.

Only females have a paternal X chromosome, whereas males only have a maternal X chromosome. So yes, if a male wants to find out about his paternal line he will have to find a suitable female relative. He already has all the material he needs to investigate his maternal line.

This is so far from what you originally posted that it's doubtful if it's in the same galaxy. The amount of goal-post-shifting going on is phenomenal. But never in a million years will you bring yourself to realise that your posts on this issue are full of elementary errors.
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Wrong a male wanting to discover his paternal line can simply present his own DNA. To discover his maternal one, he'd need to get his mother, grandmother or sister, etc to find out theirs.
 
NotEvenWrong said:
Vixen,
Males have mitochondrial DNA. Thus they can be tested for it. mtDNA is only inherited maternally. That doesn't mean males don't have it.

Honestly, can you please just stop? Read a damn book.
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As I said, bodily cells contain mitochondrial matter. However, in DNA profiling an MtDNA sequencing can only be done through the female line. Y-haplotypes, male line.
 
Vixen said:
Wrong a male wanting to discover his paternal line can simply present his own DNA. To discover his maternal one, he'd need to get his mother, grandmother or sister, etc to find out theirs.
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So we agree that males do have mitochondrial DNA after all. (They'd have a lot of trouble with metabolism if they didn't.)

I'll leave you to reflect on the rest of that at your leisure. Hint. Which parent did the male's Y chromosome come from?
 
The level of ignorance displayed here is astonishing:

- talcum powder is a good tool for learning how diseases spread

- for a male to discover his paternal line, why, he can send off for mtDNA testing

- DNA can hop about (although it is not stated by what means it achieves this)

- An individual's DNA can spring up randomly in a pile of dust

- DNA grows on dirt

- Guede's DNA found on Mez' sweater is perfectly safe and analysed correctly

- no way is any DNA found of Knox or Sollecito safe (see above)

- if you have a contagious illness - such as AIDS or a cold - and you touch someone, you too will be stricken (see talcum powder exercise) and will likely drop down dead on the spot.
 
Vixen said:
As I said, bodily cells contain mitochondrial matter. However, in DNA profiling an MtDNA sequencing can only be done through the female line. Y-haplotypes, male line.
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Vixen,
This is a bit of a word salad, and I'm not exactly sure what you're saying, but I'll continue as this may be a learning experience for you.

You are correct that "bodily" (lol) cells contain mitochondrial "matter" (lol). I'll translate this to mean human cells contain mtDNA.

You agree male cells contain mtDNA. You then claim this DNA cannot be sequenced.

Can you explain why cells containing mtDNA cannot have that DNA sequenced? Think hard, Vixen.
 
Rolfe said:
So we agree that males do have mitochondrial DNA after all. (They'd have a lot of trouble with metabolism if they didn't.)

I'll leave you to reflect on the rest of that at your leisure. Hint. Which parent did the male's Y chromosome come from?
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What is this an exam, to subterfuge your incorrect assertions?
 
Facts:

Mother’s lineage has most information
Maternal DNA lineage can mainly be investigated by means of the DNA of the mitochondria found outside the nuclei of our cells. Sons and daughters both inherit this through their mother. But only daughters pass it on to their offspring.

“That means that men will cause a break in this lineage if a woman only has sons,” explains van der Hagen.

If you are a man and want to find ancestors further back than your paternal grandmother, for instance, you will have to have female descendants of your father’s mother who are willing to donate DNA samples.

You need to have an aunt on your father’s side or a niece of your paternal grandmother on her sister’s side.

Mitochondria are good to use because they are also more robust in resisting mutations than the Y chromosome.

This makes it easier to follow your lineage back in time on your mother’s side.

Dad’s lineage more uncertain
Paternal lineage DNA is made by analysing the Y chromosome. This is passed on from father to son.

In this alternative analysts look for characteristics and markers on the Y chromosome.

“The little Y chromosome has several variations because it is vulnerable to mutations with the passage of time. But mutations are known, so it is still possible to find out who you can have kinship with,” says van der Hagen.

His personal analysis of his own Y chromosome confirms a lineage on his father’s side to Holland back to the 1500s.
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https://sciencenorway.no/dna-forskningno-norway/how-to-track-down-your-ancestry-with-dna/1443084
 
Vixen said:
Only female DNA can be identified from mtDNA (mitochodria) as only females have the X chromosome from which the mtDNA is extracted. Likewise only males can have Y-haplotypes identified as it carries down from the male line. If you want to know the mtDA background ask your mother or sister to be tested and that will tell you, likewise females can find out about the male line via their father or brother.
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This must be one of the funniest posts ever.

Mitochondrial DNA is the DNA contained within cell organelles called "mitochondria". Each person's mitochondria is derived solely from his or her mother's egg cell. (Rolfe can correct me on any exceptions in humans where mitochondria in the sperm cell managed to survive into the embryo and adult.)

Genetically typical human females have two X chromosomes in their cell nuclei, including in their egg cells. Genetically typical human males have one X and one Y chromosome in their cell nuclei, including in their sperm cells. The Y chromosomes are thus only passed down through a father's sperm.

See, for example, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitochondrial_DNA
 
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Vixen said:
Facts:

https://sciencenorway.no/dna-forskningno-norway/how-to-track-down-your-ancestry-with-dna/1443084
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Vixen, the scientist and scholar of TJMK:
You said,

Vixen said:
However, in DNA profiling an MtDNA sequencing can only be done through the female line.
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This is false. 100% irrefutably false. A male has mtDNA. Period. Since it is contained in the cells of said male, it can be sequenced.

Inferring the ancestry based on said sequence is an entirely different question. Of course you can't infer paternal ancestry with DNA that is inherited only maternally.

Vixen, when you read things, have you ever tried to understand the material rather than just do a half-assed attempted memorization and posting a link to a blog?

That concludes today's lesson. Vixen, you get a D-. It would be an F, but your attempts at lecturing actual scientists are just so cute I can't bare to fail you.
 
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