Canada Election: 2019

[Segnosaur]

Yes, it is hard to understand because the complaints are not legitimate.

Once again...

Alberta has contributed billions of dollars more into the Federal government than it has received in services over the past few decades.

Yet at the same time they have seen the government set up a formula for transfer payments that favors Quebec.

Not really sure why you consider such complaints as 'not legitimate'. Its money out of Albertan's pockets. Its money that could be spent on Albertan infrastructure, which instead is being spent in other parts of the country.

The complaints amount to a childish sense of entitlement that is rampant in Alberta and has been for years. Anything bad that happens in Alberta is blamed on other people in Canada.

While not all of the problems in Alberta are due to other Canadians, that doesn't mean they aren't still harmed by either the federal government or other provinces.

Trudeau is a favourite target which is weird because he got them their pipeline.

Yes, Trudeau helped with Transmountain, and some of the other pipeline failures had nothing to do with Trudeau personally.

But pipelines are not the only issue; equalization payments/taxes, regulations, etc. are also an issue.

Complaints by Alberta go back decades. Maybe Trudeau is being unfairly demonized by some, but that doesn't mean there aren't legitimate complaints.

 

[dudalb]

And a couple of posters here do seem to have it in for Alberta.
I think Trudeau is trying to avoid a formal alliance with the NDP because he has seen in other coutnries the problems when a party enters a coalation with a more radical party. It becomes a case of trying to keep your coalition partner happy without alientating your ownsupporters who don't like a lot of the more radical party's ideas.

 

[Belz...]

And a couple of posters here do seem to have it in for Alberta.
I think Trudeau is trying to avoid a formal alliance with the NDP because he has seen in other coutnries the problems when a party enters a coalation with a more radical party. It becomes a case of trying to keep your coalition partner happy without alientating your ownsupporters who don't like a lot of the more radical party's ideas.

To be entirely fair I think Trudeau's more to the left than the NDP now.

 

[Steve]

And a couple of posters here do seem to have it in for Alberta.I think Trudeau is trying to avoid a formal alliance with the NDP because he has seen in other coutnries the problems when a party enters a coalation with a more radical party. It becomes a case of trying to keep your coalition partner happy without alientating your ownsupporters who don't like a lot of the more radical party's ideas.

You have said that a couple of times now. Again I will say that in my case you are completely wrong. I merely recognize the realities of long term politics. Alberta is historically the most hard-core conservative area of Canada. There are ridings in Alberta where upwards of 80% of the popular vote went to the Conservatives. Every political event that goes on there has to be analyzed with that in mind.

I live in BC. A dispute between BC and Alberta has existed for a couple of years. Alberta wants a new pipeline that has to run through BC to the coast. BC govt has opposed that pipeline. I support the construction of the pipeline against the stated position of my own province. Does that seem like “having it in for Alberta”?

 

[qayak]

OBut pipelines are not the only issue; equalization payments/taxes, regulations, etc. are also an issue.

Complaints by Alberta go back decades. Maybe Trudeau is being unfairly demonized by some, but that doesn't mean there aren't legitimate complaints.

I think you fail to understand what equalization payments are. Alberta has the highest wages and best economy in Canada. They also have the lowest tax rate. So, yes, they pay more. They also have one of the highest, if not the highest, debts in the country. If they brought their tax rate closer to the national average, their debt would be gone. That's what Notley was doing. Conservatives don't do that though, because they know it is easy to whip up their base by claiming they are treated unfairly, which they aren't.

Quebec has the highest population of the Have Not provinces. Equalization is based on population so they receive the most. However, as a percentage of GDP Quebec is the lowest. The higher Have Nots are those with the smaller populations.

Alberta saving money on transfer payments would do nothing for them because without the transfer payments there is no way to collect that money. It isn't like that money would go to something else.

And here's the other kicker. The five biggest oil companies in Alberta made $46 billion dollars in profit last year. Alberta's budget for the year is $47 billion. And yet, Kenney just gave big oil another tax break. That tax break didn't create, or save, a single job. It was a thank you to the oil industry for getting him elected. And in his budget yesterday he went back to what Conservatives always do, cutting education, healthcare, public services.

 

[psionl0]

I think you fail to understand what equalization payments are.

Isn't that taking money away from safe regions and re-directing it towards swing regions?

 

[qayak]

Isn't that taking money away from safe regions and re-directing it towards swing regions?

Once again, you need to understand what the equalization payments are for. If it is buying votes it hasn't worked very well for anyone.

 

[Steve]

Isn't that taking money away from safe regions and re-directing it towards swing regions?

Ooh, I can answer this one. No.

 

[psionl0]

Once again, you need to understand what the equalization payments are for. If it is buying votes it hasn't worked very well for anyone.

I'd say it is working very well - unless you are claiming that you can reduce the "equalization payments" to Quebec without losing votes there.

Also, Alberta has the ideal features necessary for a source of pork barreling money:

Alberta is historically the most hard-core conservative area of Canada.

Alberta has the highest wages and best economy in Canada.

 

[Segnosaur]

OBut pipelines are not the only issue; equalization payments/taxes, regulations, etc. are also an issue.

Complaints by Alberta go back decades. Maybe Trudeau is being unfairly demonized by some, but that doesn't mean there aren't legitimate complaints.

I think you fail to understand what equalization payments are.

Rather arrogant claim by yourself.

I understand what equalization payments are very well, thank you very much, including their purpose, how the money is collected and dispersed, etc.

Alberta has the highest wages and best economy in Canada. They also have the lowest tax rate. So, yes, they pay more. They also have one of the highest, if not the highest, debts in the country. If they brought their tax rate closer to the national average, their debt would be gone.

The low tax rate as the reason for Alberta's debt is irrelevant as to whether Alberta has legitimate complaints regarding its treatment in Canada.

That's what Notley was doing. Conservatives don't do that though, because they know it is easy to whip up their base by claiming they are treated unfairly, which they aren't.

Simply claiming it is so does not make it a fact.

Quebec has the highest population of the Have Not provinces. Equalization is based on population so they receive the most. However, as a percentage of GDP Quebec is the lowest. The higher Have Nots are those with the smaller populations.

And now we get to the actual meat of the matter.

Keep in mind that the formulas used for equalization payments are not some god-like declaration that were passed down like they were carved on the same tablets that were brought down from the mountain by Moses. They can be changed.

For example, one of the complaints is that while Alberta's share of equalization payments is based on their oil revenue, Quebec's hydro-electric resources not dealt with in the same manner.

From: https://nationalpost.com/opinion/pe...hydro-power-your-equalization-dollars-at-work
...a quirk in the equalization formula excludes the true value of hydro electric energy produced by Manitoba and Quebec, which sell their hydropower in local markets for below-market prices without penalty....The formula is correct to deduct the market price of oil...The same logic should apply to Quebec and Manitoba’s hydro revenues under the equalization rules — but doesn’t.

Now, I am not in Alberta. However, if I were, I would not have an issue with equalization payments going to a province like (for example) PEI. (Small province, isolated, limited population,etc.) On the other hand, I would question why Quebec is getting anything at all... its a big province, significant population, large resource base.

And I guess I need to remind you that equalization payments are not the only issue that Albertans might have. Another poster also posted about the NEP.

Alberta saving money on transfer payments would do nothing for them because without the transfer payments there is no way to collect that money. It isn't like that money would go to something else.

The money that gets collected and assigned to be used for equalization payments does not just appear out of thin air.

Without the need for transfer payments, either:
1) The federal government would be able to reduce taxes (which would benefit Alberta residents directly)
2) The money would still be collected, but spent on programs that provide a more equal benefit across the country.