The Trials of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito: Part 29

[Vixen]

Right, and I think everyone knows that the only person to ever imply there was a mixed blood sample was Garofano, who was not a witness during any of the trials. Harry Rag insists Stefanoni testified to mixed blood yet can't quote the testimony where she says this. At one point he claimed this was testimony not posted on the fake wiki - as if that was the only source for trial transcripts - but that he had special access to the transcript. I'm reading this and I'm almost - ALMOST - feeling embarrassed for him.

You can read all about it in Massei.

Another one who has never read the court documents. Just the handouts from, Friends of Amanda Knox (the FOAKers) laying out the 'party line' which you are meant to toe.

 

[Vixen]

Indeed.

However, Sollecito's arguments in the appeal on the invalidity and unreliability of the alleged DNA evidence on the bra clasp go beyond the mention of contamination. Here is the text of that section 3.14), from page 14 of the translation:

"Further, the motivational deficiency was blatant with regards to the conclusions of the genetic examination of the bra clasp, with regard to which referral of the proceedings to the United Sections is requested.

Regarding the possible contamination of the sample, the appellate judges ignored the photographic materials included in the court records, which clearly demonstrated possible contamination in the way the clasp was treated, being passed from hand to hand by persons wearing dirty latex gloves.

Moreover, no second amplification was performed on the clasp despite there being a usable portion of the extract, which nonetheless remains actually unused.

Moreover, the clasp, although noted during the first site inspection by the Scientific Police, was left on the floor and remained there for quite some time. It is not true, moreover, that between the initial access and that during which the clasp was at last acquired, that there were only two site searches by the investigators, which were more numerous in reality and on those occasions everything was turned upside-down.

In this regard, no account was taken of the defence's observations and of the conclusions to the contrary reached by the party's consultant, Professor Tagliabracci."

Blah blah blah. The mention of Tagliabraci obviates it immediately as Massei and Chieffi (Supreme Court) and then Nencini disposed of Tagliabracci's claim (res judicata) that it was suspectcentric having weighed the issue and finding it was NOT.

It is legally defective for Marasca to have resurrected:

- Conti & Vecchiotti

- Tagliabracci

As both had already been finally disposed of by Chieffi.

 

[Vixen]

Amanda Knox left samples of her DNA in her own flat? How is this possible?

Mixed in with the fresh DNA of the murder victim (i.e., her dying blood), it is only possible if she was there at the scene during the hour it takes for blood to dry and probably within the half hour.

Yet Knox and her defence deny she was there until over twelve hours later.

 

[Matthew Best]

Mixed in with the fresh DNA of the murder victim (i.e., her dying blood), it is only possible if she was there at the scene during the hour it takes for blood to dry and probably within the half hour.

Yet Knox and her defence deny she was there until over twelve hours later.

How can you be sure it wasn't mixed in during collection? You know, when the forensic collection team vigorously scrubbed large areas of the bathroom sink with cotton swabs?

 

[LondonJohn]

Guede left four samples of DNA, Amanda Knox, five.

Reading comprehension issues again.

1) IN THAT ROOM (i.e. in Kercher's bedroom).

2) Forensic evidence. Not just DNA. In other worse, including Guede's shoe prints in Kercher's blood on her pillow case, and Guede's hand print in Kercher's blood on her pillow case; that pillow case was underneath Kercher's body when it was discovered......

 

[LondonJohn]

The aim was to clean up all the blood in the hallway so it couldn't be asked of them, 'how come you didn't see it?'

Once again: there was no clean up in the hallway. Had there been a clean up, there would have been smears and wipe marks under Luminol analysis. There were no such smears or wipe marks. Massei and Nencini were wrong. The prosecution were wrong. You really ought to read the Marasca MR (the only one, incidentally, which actually counts in this sorry case).

 

[LondonJohn]

Stefanoni under oath in court said she was careful not to touch it.

BTW In any case, only Sollecito carries around his own unique DNA so it certainly was not produced by anyone else.

To paraphrase my earlier movie quote: Who are you going to believe? Stefanoni or your own lying eyes (which saw Stefanoni and other goons clearly touching that hook in the video)?

 

[LondonJohn]

It matters not a jot whether or not there was dust in the room. AIUI Mez was a good deal cleaner and tidier than her US counterpart. Dust contains fragments of alleles (such as those found on the clasp of 'other individuals').

Raff's FULL HOUSE DNA is not classed as background contamination (from, say,skin particles found in dust). It is firmly adhered to the bra clasp where SOMEONE bent it out of shape.

May I suggest you pop along to British Library and inform yourself of DNA?

Oh dear. You're really not up to speed on the subject of DNA contamination, are you? You really believe think that, for example, skin cells cannot contain undeteriorated DNA molecules?

And "Fragments of alleles". Priceless LOL.

(And this apeing of others' words and phrases is rather tiresome)

 

[LondonJohn]

What rot. It was determined that Knox' DNA (certainly blood because of the high RFU's and domination) was deposited the same time as Mez' in the sink and bidet because both were similarly diluted with water. The mixture was pink rather than dark red (as on the cotton bud box). As surface blood and water tend to dry pretty quickly it is a perfectly reasonable and scientific view the mixture was placed there the same time. It tested positive for human blood.

Yeah, uh..... what?

1) This is simply untrue. Knox' Knox's blood on the tap (US: faucet) was undiluted and dried, and whatever DNA of Knox was in the actual bowl of the sink was so diluted as to be totally invisible (and it's impossible to know whether that DNA came from cheek cells or blood or anything else). By contrast, Kercher's blood in the sink was visible, water-diluted, and still moist.

2) Even if "both were similarly diluted with water", how on Earth is this an indicator that "both were deposited at the same time"? Your discourse on drying time etc is pure nonsense: show me where there's scientific evidence of the relative "wetness" of Knox's DNA material and Kercher's DNA material.


You do know, don't you, that this "evidence" was gathered by way of broad smears around the sink? So what was actually collected was nothing more than an admixture of everything in the sink - no separation. A competent crime scene investigator, on the other hand, would have collected numerous samples from different places within the sink bowl, using careful spot-dabbing to minimise the possibility of combination.

 

[LondonJohn]

You can read all about it in Massei.

Another one who has never read the court documents. Just the handouts from, Friends of Amanda Knox (the FOAKers) laying out the 'party line' which you are meant to toe.

As you have now been told countless times: the Massei verdict and MR is utterly worthless. It's null and void. Nothing within it counts for anything at all. Yet you still keep referring to it as if it has actual value......

 

[LondonJohn]

Blah blah blah. The mention of Tagliabraci obviates it immediately as Massei and Chieffi (Supreme Court) and then Nencini disposed of Tagliabracci's claim (res judicata) that it was suspectcentric having weighed the issue and finding it was NOT.

It is legally defective for Marasca to have resurrected:

- Conti & Vecchiotti

- Tagliabracci

As both had already been finally disposed of by Chieffi.

As you have now been told multiple times: the verdicts and MRs of Massei, Chieffi and Nencini are null and void. They are worthless. They don't even exist judicially. Nothing within them carries any value whatsoever now.

 

[Vixen]

How can you be sure it wasn't mixed in during collection? You know, when the forensic collection team vigorously scrubbed large areas of the bathroom sink with cotton swabs?

Members of Italy's forensic scientists are persons employed in a highly-sought after competition for forensic science jobs. A friend of mine had to get a first class degree in Chemistry before she could even get a job in the UK version. If you really believe the best of the generation scientists trained in scientific method and often PhD's in biological sciences and pathology are 'out to frame' random Italian sons of respected urologists (not a pleasant profession, I am sure) and 20-year old Americans then you must have an almighty chip on your shoulder.

 

[Vixen]

Once again: there was no clean up in the hallway. Had there been a clean up, there would have been smears and wipe marks under Luminol analysis. There were no such smears or wipe marks. Massei and Nencini were wrong. The prosecution were wrong. You really ought to read the Marasca MR (the only one, incidentally, which actually counts in this sorry case).

If you've ever witnessed a road accident you would know here are HUGE amounts of blood everywhere.

Mez' room was quite small and being stabbed in the neck would certainly have entailed copious volumes of blood to leak out into the hallway.

In fact, Guede wrote, he didn't see how Amanda could have slept there with the hallway red with blood.

 

[Vixen]

Yeah, uh..... what?

1) This is simply untrue. Knox' Knox's blood on the tap (US: faucet) was undiluted and dried, and whatever DNA of Knox was in the actual bowl of the sink was so diluted as to be totally invisible (and it's impossible to know whether that DNA came from cheek cells or blood or anything else). By contrast, Kercher's blood in the sink was visible, water-diluted, and still moist.

2) Even if "both were similarly diluted with water", how on Earth is this an indicator that "both were deposited at the same time"? Your discourse on drying time etc is pure nonsense: show me where there's scientific evidence of the relative "wetness" of Knox's DNA material and Kercher's DNA material.


You do know, don't you, that this "evidence" was gathered by way of broad smears around the sink? So what was actually collected was nothing more than an admixture of everything in the sink - no separation. A competent crime scene investigator, on the other hand, would have collected numerous samples from different places within the sink bowl, using careful spot-dabbing to minimise the possibility of combination.

Rubbish. It was a continuous line of drips.

 

[Vixen]

As you have now been told multiple times: the verdicts and MRs of Massei, Chieffi and Nencini are null and void. They are worthless. They don't even exist judicially. Nothing within them carries any value whatsoever now.

Claim you.

Edited by zooterkin: 

<SNIP>
Edited for rule 0 and rule 12.

 

[TomG]

If you've ever witnessed a road accident you would know here are HUGE amounts of blood everywhere.

Mez' room was quite small and being stabbed in the neck would certainly have entailed copious volumes of blood to leak out into the hallway.

In fact, Guede wrote, he didn't see how Amanda could have slept there with the hallway red with blood.

This isn't just rubbish, it's wilful premeditated rubbish. Even Rag doesn't get as bad as this.

Hoots

 

[Bill Williams]

Stefanoni under oath in court said she was careful not to touch it.

BTW In any case, only Sollecito carries around his own unique DNA so it certainly was not produced by anyone else.

You have not read her testimony. She told the court she could not rule out touching it. This must be an innocent mistake on your part because this is not something you'd wilfully lie about.

 

[Bill Williams]

Blah blah blah. The mention of Tagliabraci obviates it immediately as Massei and Chieffi (Supreme Court) and then Nencini disposed of Tagliabracci's claim (res judicata) that it was suspectcentric having weighed the issue and finding it was NOT.

It is legally defective for Marasca to have resurrected:

- Conti & Vecchiotti

- Tagliabracci

As both had already been finally disposed of by Chieffi.

What is amazing about this post is that it comes after your claim that the Supreme Court in Italy only rules on the law, not on facts as found by lower courts. Consistency is not a long suit of yours.

 

[TomG]

As you have now been told multiple times: the verdicts and MRs of Massei, Chieffi and Nencini are null and void. They are worthless. They don't even exist judicially. Nothing within them carries any value whatsoever now.

Rag comes away with much the same stuff, persistently quoting Micheli, Massei and Nencini etc.; however, their legacy still lives on in M/B. We are left the judicial fact of the staged break-in but no perpetrator since the charge against K&S is annulled, leaving no-one to have committed the act. We have the judicial fact of multiple attackers even though there is no biological evidence of anyone else other than Rudy, with any other suspects having to be acquitted in the same way as K&S, i.e. no evidence. M/B also inherited the nonsense of Amanda washing blood off her hands when there is no scientific data to evaluate the sample beyond sub-source. We have the fact of Rudy not having delivered the fatal blow from Micheli, leaving no-one to actually have killed Meredith, nor could there ever be, for the sheer lack of evidence that acquitted K&S.

The mess that we have as a result doesn't expose the shortcomings of M/B, it rather exposes the apparatus in place to ensure the guilt of K&S before they even came to court.

 

[LondonJohn]

If you've ever witnessed a road accident you would know here are HUGE amounts of blood everywhere.

Mez' room was quite small and being stabbed in the neck would certainly have entailed copious volumes of blood to leak out into the hallway.

In fact, Guede wrote, he didn't see how Amanda could have slept there with the hallway red with blood.

This is just plain dumb. And (of course) wrong.

(Hint, ONCE AGAIN: had there been these "copious volumes of blood (leaking) out into the hallway", and had there been a notional clean-up of these "copious volumes", there would beyond all doubt have been smear marks visible under Luminol testing. So, Vixen, were there smear marks visible under Luminol testing in the hallway, as an artifact of someone mopping or wiping up this "copious" blood.....?)