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The Trump Presidency: Part 17

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Trump doesn't lie. He's not enough honest, or paradoxically too honest, I don't know. He's so gone none the terms can even really apply to him.

Lying is knowing what the truth is and deciding not to say it for some personal gain. Trump just says what ever pops in his head but he's literally wrong about everything.

Again all the old rules don't apply to Trump. There's no person there, just a persona.
 
Fast Eddie B said:
Agree with Ziggurat.

Before I read his response, I had mentally prepared a similar one. I read it that using the lynching metaphor is bad because the President did it. The implication, stated or otherwise, is it’s not so bad for anyone else to use it.

This back and forth is a good example of both whataboutism and goalpost moving,
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Sorry, but The President has to be held to a higher standard. It's bad and stupid and ignorant for anyone to do.
But any sane President has an army of advisers and speechwriters to make sure he will never say something so offensive.
The fact that Trump decided to circumvent this doesn't mean that he can say what he wants without repercussions - his tweets can be impeachable offenses, too.
 
Captain_Swoop said:
Trump Tweets

Neither he (Taylor) or any other witness has provided testimony that the Ukrainians were aware that military aid was being withheld. You can’t have a quid pro quo with no quo.” Congressman John Ratcliffe @foxandfriends Where is the Whistleblower? The Do Nothing Dems case is DEAD!

Republicans are going to fight harder than ever to win back the House because of what the Do Nothing Democrats have done to our Country!

Young campus Conservatives are flocking to Turning Point USA & other Conservative speaker events all over the Country, AND IN RECORD NUMBERS. Thousands of students are turning out. “I just want to compliment the President of the United States for signing that historic Executive..

....Order a couple of months ago saying that any school that does not uphold the First Amendment Rights of its students will lose Federal Funding. We have seen a huge change in how the Universities interact with us as a national & local student organization. Our studends....

....feel EMPOWERED. There’s a movement happening on these campuses like I’ve never seen before. When you have 3000 students wanting to get into an event that couldn’t get in, that’s pretty remarkable!” @charliekirk11 Turning Point USA KEEP AMERICA GREAT!
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...has Charlie ever figured out who put in the brilliant background slide the last time the Orange Ruffy graced his stage?
 
Sensitivity to any trivialization of the term lynching has greatly increased over the recent few years as the extent, and horror of its reality in the South has become more widely known through articles, documentaries, and museums.

Of course I would not expect Trump to be aware of this, but nor am I surprised by his over the top, pity me whining about facing the consequences of his own dispicable actions.
 
Fast Eddie B said:
Agree with Ziggurat.

Before I read his response, I had mentally prepared a similar one. I read it that using the lynching metaphor is bad because the President did it. The implication, stated or otherwise, is it’s not so bad for anyone else to use it.

This back and forth is a good example of both whataboutism and goalpost moving,
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I'm not sure that I see goalpost-moving, so can I ask you to point out where you see it, please?

I think it's probably less bad when other people use it, and how they use it. The examples given by Ziggurat of 3 forum members using the term "lynch mob" is not really comparable to a US president with highly questionable racial sensitivity credentials and a platform reaching millions saying "this is a lynching" referring to a congressional investigation into his behaviour. For me there's quite a difference between those two.

Biden's use of it 20 years ago was just about as bad as trump's use of it. Biden's apologised for having used the word, as he should. I think we all know that trump will never do that.

If Ziggurat's wider point was that there are hypocrites in Washington... well... blow me down.
If Ziggurat's narrower point, by providing examples of forum members using the term 'lynch mob' and there being no subsequent uproar about it here... well... I don't think there was any real uproar on here about trump having used it. The report was that there was an uproar about it in general society.

It's notable that Ziggurat's post very closely resembles the argument put forth by Republicans who blindly support trump. Zero criticism of trump, only an accusation of hypocrisy at trump critics.
 
I'm still trying to figure out how pointing out Hypocrisy does... anything and why it's the only thing we do in political discussions anymore.

Everyone does know if you beat your wife and one of the people on the jury who convicts you also beat his wife... you still beat your wife right? Those two things didn't cancel each other out. You didn't "win" because you proved you didn't "beat your wife the most beatings ever in a unique way."
 
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JoeMorgue said:
I'm still trying to figure out how pointing out Hypocrisy does... anything and why it's the only thing we do in political discussions anymore.

Everyone does know if you beat your wife and one of the people on the jury who convicts you also beat his wife... you still beat your wife right? Those two things didn't cancel each other out. You didn't "win" because you proved you didn't "beat your wife the most beatings ever in a unique way."
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That's an aptly trumpian flourish. Winning.
 
JoeMorgue said:
I'm still trying to figure out how pointing out Hypocrisy does... anything and why it's the only thing we do in political discussions anymore.

Everyone does know if you beat your wife and one of the people on the jury who convicts you also beat his wife... you still beat your wife right? Those two things didn't cancel each other out. You didn't "win" because you proved you didn't "beat your wife the most beatings ever in a unique way."
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I don't see how you haven't grasped this yet: it's not about what happens, it's about one side scoring more points than the other side. Full stop. Nobody cares that X is a wrong thing to do, what matters is their side did X 89 times while our side only did X 86 times. If you want to talk about the ethics of X take it to Religion and Philosophy.
 
JoeMorgue said:
I'm still trying to figure out how pointing out Hypocrisy does... anything and why it's the only thing we do in political discussions anymore.

Everyone does know if you beat your wife and one of the people on the jury who convicts you also beat his wife... you still beat your wife right? Those two things didn't cancel each other out. You didn't "win" because you proved you didn't "beat your wife the most beatings ever in a unique way."
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The point isn't just that the accusations are hypocritical. They're also driven by motivated reasoning. Nobody really cares about using the word "lynching" if anyone else uses it. But when Trump does it, suddenly it's something to get your panties in a twist about. It's astroturf outrage.
 
Ziggurat said:
The point isn't just that the accusations are hypocritical. They're also driven by motivated reasoning. Nobody really cares about using the word "lynching" if anyone else uses it. But when Trump does it, suddenly it's something to get your panties in a twist about. It's astroturf outrage.
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No the point is you think your demi-god does no wrong because somebody else did something surface level equivalent in entirely different circumstances.

If Trump chopped off someone's head you've be whatabouting the time some powerless Democrat gave someone a haircut 30 years ago.

You have no sense of context or scale and worst of all you think that makes you better.
 
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Belz... said:
Shouldn't the more important point be whether the accusation is true?
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Have you forgotten what accusation we're talking about here? Because no, that's not the issue. Nobody disputes that Trump used the word "lynch". The accusation is true in that sense. The question is whether that's some terrible offense. And I'm saying that people's past behavior indicates that no, actually, it's not. Nobody really cares about the figurative use of the word, it's the fact that Trump used it which people can't countenance.
 
timhau said:
The important point is whether it is true beyond unreasonable doubt.
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I mean, the White House subsequently released documentation that supports the whistleblower's claims and several White House/Trump associates admitted to doing those things. So... seems like it is?
 
Ziggurat said:
The point isn't just that the accusations are hypocritical. They're also driven by motivated reasoning. Nobody really cares about using the word "lynching" if anyone else uses it. But when Trump does it, suddenly it's something to get your panties in a twist about. It's astroturf outrage.
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Well that's a lie. The Dems eat each other alive over stuff like this.
 
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