Cont: Brexit: Now What? 9 Below Zero

[Nessie]

I think he is breaking the law personally.

The Act requires him to seek an extension...

The letter states; "The UK Parliament has passed the European Union (Withdrawal) (No. 2) Act 2019. Its provisions now require Her Majesty’s Government to seek an extension..."

All the PM is doing is sending the request for an extension from the government because Parliament has required him to do so. It goes on to say; "I am writing therefore to inform the European Council that the United Kingdom is seeking a further extension ..."

Now it is the UK, not the PM who is seeking the extension. Furthermore, it states "seeking" not asking, which means it is merely a request.

If the Act had specifically stated that the PM was asking for the extension, you would have a point. But it does not, hence the PM has not bothered to sign the letter and is asking the EU to wait.

 

[wobs]

Bit daft to accidentally get a deal from Brussels then. What a buffoon.

Or--your opinion does not stack against the evidence.

It keeps no deal on the table.
https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/brexit-deal-boris-johnson-vote-john-baron-erg-816619

 

[Francesca R]

I really dont think there is any clear plan, strategy or tactics behind anything Johnson has done. [ . . . ] I now think it is much more likely we will be leaving with a deal before the end of the year.

And probably having an election that gets Johnson and the Tories a majority.

There may not have been a master plan here (underestimate schemers at your peril though) but I suspect that the end result might look startlingly like Johnson's political opponents have been played and voter support gained as the prize.

 

[Mojo]

The letter states; "The UK Parliament has passed the European Union (Withdrawal) (No. 2) Act 2019. Its provisions now require Her Majesty’s Government to seek an extension..."

All the PM is doing is sending the request for an extension from the government because Parliament has required him to do so. It goes on to say; "I am writing therefore to inform the European Council that the United Kingdom is seeking a further extension ..."

Now it is the UK, not the PM who is seeking the extension. Furthermore, it states "seeking" not asking, which means it is merely a request.

If the Act had specifically stated that the PM was asking for the extension, you would have a point. But it does not, hence the PM has not bothered to sign the letter and is asking the EU to wait.

So does this mean he isn’t dead in a ditch?

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

He wants a no deal Brexit and nothing less, you really need to grasp this fact. There is no other reason why he prorogued parliament and refused to put his deal to a vote after the Letwin amendment passed. The deal he has proposed is worse than May's deal that he refused to support. He only wants his deal to pass if he can then use it to engineer a crash out no deal Brexit. Since he can't he chose not to put his deal to a vote and avoid the amendment.

For the record, again, Hansard reports the amended motion was put and agreed to.

https://twitter.com/joannaccherry/status/1185629149500710912

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

Bit daft to accidentally get a deal from Brussels then. What a buffoon.

Or--your opinion does not stack against the evidence.

What 'deal' did he get?

The EU have always been willing to offer these things, the key is whether it is approved by Parliament and whether it is binding upon the UK in the long term.

The usual suspects were already saying prior to yesterday that this 'deal' was the precursor to no-deal at the end of next year.

 

[Francesca R]

So does this mean he isn’t dead in a ditch?

Not signing the letter sending a photocopy and adding another one of personal chit chat looks to have been a jot of "face saving" so that he can say "I did not have sexual relations with that woman" "I did not request an extension".

So, yes.

 

[sphenisc]

AFAICS the Benn Act requires the PM to send the letter.

He has in fact delegated the job to a "senior diplomat", and is therefore in contravention of the statute.

IANAL

 

[Francesca R]

What 'deal' did he get?

A re-combobulation of elements the EU was already reasonably happy to give Theresa May.

The EU have always been willing to offer these things, the key is whether it is approved by Parliament and whether it is binding upon the UK in the long term.

Parliamentary approval seems more likely this time.

There are no guarantees anything is binding on the UK long term.

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

Vixen was talking about a court order so that's why I was asking which court order. I didn't think there had been one but given everything that has gone on I was willing to believe I'd simply missed it!

Scottish court is sitting tomorrow to review the situation.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-49975066

I think that given the EU seem to have accepted the letter as an extension request then nothing significant will happen but it probably isn't clever of BoJo to repeatedly state in Parliament that he won't follow the law if he does, in fact, intend to do so.

I think, at best, we would see the court issue a rebuke for being a petulant child.

 

[Darat]

And probably having an election that gets Johnson and the Tories a majority.



There may not have been a master plan here (underestimate schemers at your peril though) but I suspect that the end result might look startlingly like Johnson's political opponents have been played and voter support gained as the prize.

Sadly I can't disagree with your sentiments.

 

[Nessie]

Scottish court is sitting tomorrow to review the situation.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-49975066

I think that given the EU seem to have accepted the letter as an extension request then nothing significant will happen but it probably isn't clever of BoJo to repeatedly state in Parliament that he won't follow the law if he does, in fact, intend to do so.

I think, at best, we would see the court issue a rebuke for being a petulant child.

There is nothing in the Act that requires the PM to only seek an extension and to not do anything else. All the Act does is require him to send a letter, as required by Parliament, on from the UK government, which he has done.

He (or probably legal advisors) have spotted the loopholes in the Act and are using them to full extent.

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

A re-combobulation of elements the EU was already reasonably happy to give Theresa May.

Parliamentary approval seems more likely this time.

There are no guarantees anything is binding on the UK long term.

Parliamentary approval might happen but in the words of one Scottish MP yesterday it is likely whatever actually gets agreed will be 'amended to ****'

I may have missed something but I am not sure the EU have actually signed off on the new deal either. I'm not sure why they would agree to something where Northern Ireland can apparently just decide to change the deal in the relatively short term.

 

[Vixen]

Vixen was talking about a court order so that's why I was asking which court order. I didn't think there had been one but given everything that has gone on I was willing to believe I'd simply missed it!

Sorry, Brexit was beginning to confuse even me.

On an amusing note, the lady tv news presenter on Finnish MTV channel had some graphics behind her and was attempting to explain what the vote yesterday consisted of. She had the blue conservatives bar chart on one side plus a few rogue labour MPs making up the 306 and another on the other side mostly red but with rainbow colours of green, orange and whatnot. In the middle was a picture of the speaker.

'John Bercow' she said '"order, order"' (this bit in a funny deep English voice LOL )

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

There is nothing in the Act that requires the PM to only seek an extension and to not do anything else. All the Act does is require him to send a letter, as required by Parliament, on from the UK government, which he has done.

He (or probably legal advisors) have spotted the loopholes in the Act and are using them to full extent.

There is nothing in the Act itself, but attempting to frustrate the Act in and of itself could be construed as not complying with the Act.

As it is, have actions appear to have had no real effect so I doubt anything would be done, but had for example the EU refused to accept the unsigned letter as a proper request then I think the courts would have stepped in.

 

[Francesca R]

I may have missed something but I am not sure the EU have actually signed off on the new deal either.

The EU 27 haven't. Few think they won't though now that the negotiating team has.

not sure why they would agree to something where Northern Ireland can apparently just decide to change the deal in the relatively short term.

Presumably because unionists on their own can't back NI out of it.

 

[Vixen]

The letter states; "The UK Parliament has passed the European Union (Withdrawal) (No. 2) Act 2019. Its provisions now require Her Majesty’s Government to seek an extension..."

All the PM is doing is sending the request for an extension from the government because Parliament has required him to do so. It goes on to say; "I am writing therefore to inform the European Council that the United Kingdom is seeking a further extension ..."

Now it is the UK, not the PM who is seeking the extension. Furthermore, it states "seeking" not asking, which means it is merely a request.

If the Act had specifically stated that the PM was asking for the extension, you would have a point. But it does not, hence the PM has not bothered to sign the letter and is asking the EU to wait.

Failing to sign the letter shows what a rude and arrogant boor he is.

 

[Vixen]

It keeps no deal on the table.
https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/brexit-deal-boris-johnson-vote-john-baron-erg-816619

Anything that keeps 'no deal' on the table also keeps 'revoke Article 50' there, too.

Say the EU refuses to extend time. So: it will be a stark choice between 'no deal and the above.

MP's will not pass a bad deal. Boris has a minority government and DUP now hate him.

 

[Vixen]

And probably having an election that gets Johnson and the Tories a majority.

There may not have been a master plan here (underestimate schemers at your peril though) but I suspect that the end result might look startlingly like Johnson's political opponents have been played and voter support gained as the prize.

Don't believe the Tory tabloids.

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

Parliamentary approval seems more likely this time.

Seems more likely than not, unfortunately.