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Who created al Qaeda?

Who created al Qaeda?
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Osama Bin Laden interview al-Jazeera October 2001:

"The name "al Qaeda" was established a long time ago by mere chance. The late Abu Ebeida El-Banashiri established the training camps for our mujahedeen against Russia's terrorism. We used to call the training camp al Qaeda [meaning "the base" in English]. And the name stayed."
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In the initial stages of the Afghanistan War, Pakistan Islamic imam and theologian Abdullah Azzam along with Saudi businessman Osama Bin Laden and Egyptian Islamic imam Ayman al-Zawahiri together form an organization in which will help recruit and fund Arabs worldwide and Afghans in their fight against the Soviet invaders. The Mahktab al-Khidamat or Afghan Services Bureau would get hundreds of millions of dollars in funding from countries such as Saudi Arabia, Pakistan and even the United States. As the funding became proficient, the MAK offices began to spread into other countries, with its second largest base in the United States. In 1987, three men, Mustafa Shalabi, Fawaz Damra, and Ali Shinawy, formally file papers incorporating Al-Kifah, which is called the Al-Kifah Refugee Center. At first, it is located inside the Al Farouq mosque. But eventually it will get it own office space next to the mosque. Shalabi, a naturalized citizen from Egypt, runs the office with two assistants: Mahmud Abouhalima and El Sayyid Nosair, Shalabi is also a close friend to Abdullah Azzam, and thus the Al-Kihaf Center would provide a major source of funding for the Mujaheddin in the war. There would be many other offices opening up inside the United States, in cities such as, St.Louis, Tuscon, Kansas City and New Jersey. Azzam himself would at times enter the United States on fund raising rallies by preaching at a number of mosques.

In 1991, Omar Abdel Rahman would enter the United States, he would be granted a temporary visa by the consul of the United States Embassy in Khartoum, Sudan, despite his name being listed on a U.S. State Department terrorist watch list. The CIA knew of this but did nothing to impede on his arrival to the U.S. He would visit the Al Farooq Mosque in Brooklyn, and would in quick time have a small following who listened to his fiery sermons and denouncements of the United States. Many of these followers would go on to participate in the 1993 WTC bombing. Nevertheless “The Blind Shiek” Omar Abdel Rahman would also raise funding for the Afghan Mujahedin whenever he preached at the number of mosques in NYC. This would be the beginning stages of a new and profound ideology which would be given its headstart by none other than Abdullah Azzam…Defensive Jihad, the new Islamic call to arms and fight in a war that pertains to the spiritual as well as the physical. This ideology would replace the Pan Arabist nationalism which once dominated the Islamic spectrum in the Middle East and Southeast Asia.

February 1991, Mustafa Shalabi would be found murdered inside his home. Omar Abdel Rahman would become the driving force behind the Al-Kifah center and Al Farooq Mosque. Abdel-Rahman is said to have circulated a denunciation of Shalabi in early 1991 all in due part to a disagreement over whether funding should continue to help Afghans in their quest to rebuild the country or to use it to continue toe “jihad” against the United States. Ayman al-Zawahiri would also have a similar argument with Abdullah Azzam over what should be done with the continued funding. Azzam wanted to use the wealth it had generated, and the network it created to help install a pure Islamic government in post-war Afghanistan and opposed “fitna” among Muslims, including attacks against governments of Muslim countries. Al-Zawahiri wanted to use MAK’s assets to fund a global jihad, including the overthrow of governments in Muslim countries deemed un-Islamic. In 1989 just months after the end of the Afghan-Soviet war, Abdullah Azzam would be killed along with two if his sons when his car, which was outfitted with a bomb, exploded. No one was held responsible for the murder of Azzam, but it was suspected that it was either Osama Bin Laden or the CIA. Just weeks later the MAK offices were now under the total control of Osama Bin Laden and Ayman al-Zawahiri. In 1992, it was renamed, Al Qaeda.
 
I subscribe to the basic notion that for every action there is a reaction. The reaction is hard to predict in some cases... but that there will be a reaction of some sort is as reliable as the sun rising in the East.

When you apply this to "world affairs" you can see, for example that for multiple reasons some nations have interests outside their own borders. The reasons my be rational or not... and often are driven by economics... profits. So, for example a country DOES need energy such as oil for many reasons. Those who trade in the energy sector are in it for profit. Energy is also considered essential and becomes a strategic need. Enter the "military" and political involvement outside the USA's borders. It makes sense that the USA would want a friendly government in a nation where they want something... access to energy resources (or other resources). A friendly government to the USA's needs may not be a government friendly to the needs of the people in the nation. There are plenty of examples of despots who suppress the people and take the resources for their own profit.

People don't like to be oppressed. They don't like to be exploited. They don't like to live in poverty while the resource wealth of the nation is taken by an autocrat or a foreign entity. Oppressed people will at some point seek to end their oppression. Usually they don't have the ability to vote their oppressors out of power. They have to wage some manner of armed struggle and overthrow the "king". This has happened many times in history and will continue to happen in the future.

The Arab world is not democratic. There is much oppression and in some nations wealth in resources to be extracted and sold on the world market. The Western nations have gone into the Arab world and taken those resources, supported the despotic leaders... provided them with weapon to use in controlling their populations. Colonialism leads to rebellions and insurgencies.

The main powers were position their sphere's of influence to control as much of the world's resources as they could. This gave us the cold war. USSR didn't belong in Afghanistan where they installed the a puppet government with soviet puppet as head of state. And the insurrection began. It was seen as an invasion by outsiders to the Moslem world. Arabs fighters were recruited from all Islamic nations to fight the Soviet infidels. The USA supported them because USSR was our "enemy". The war against the Soviet back government in Afghanistan was a proxy war between the USA and the USSR. So USA worked with and supported the insurrection.

However the insurrection didn't want the USA to control Afghanistan either... why change one satan for another. They turned their attention to fighting the USA. These are asymmetrical battles... They don't have armies, air forces, navies. They are guerrillas fighters as there were in Central and South America.

9/11 was a very low tech attack to humiliate the USA. It was very effective. Terrorists don't fight on battlefields as was done up until WWII. Western armies are the wrong tool to fight terrorism

AQ was a direct response... a reaction to colonial policies by USSR and the West... USA, UK, France, Spain the former colonial powers. We supported them fighting the USSR and then they turned their ire on their other oppressors.
 
Adam Fitzgerald said:
In the initial stages of the Afghanistan War, Pakistan Islamic imam and theologian Abdullah Azzam along with Saudi businessman Osama Bin Laden and Egyptian Islamic imam Ayman al-Zawahiri together form an organization in which will help recruit and fund Arabs worldwide and Afghans in their fight against the Soviet invaders. The Mahktab al-Khidamat or Afghan Services Bureau would get hundreds of millions of dollars in funding from countries such as Saudi Arabia, Pakistan and even the United States. As the funding became proficient, the MAK offices began to spread into other countries, with its second largest base in the United States. In 1987, three men, Mustafa Shalabi, Fawaz Damra, and Ali Shinawy, formally file papers incorporating Al-Kifah, which is called the Al-Kifah Refugee Center. At first, it is located inside the Al Farouq mosque. But eventually it will get it own office space next to the mosque. Shalabi, a naturalized citizen from Egypt, runs the office with two assistants: Mahmud Abouhalima and El Sayyid Nosair, Shalabi is also a close friend to Abdullah Azzam, and thus the Al-Kihaf Center would provide a major source of funding for the Mujaheddin in the war. There would be many other offices opening up inside the United States, in cities such as, St.Louis, Tuscon, Kansas City and New Jersey. Azzam himself would at times enter the United States on fund raising rallies by preaching at a number of mosques.

In 1991, Omar Abdel Rahman would enter the United States, he would be granted a temporary visa by the consul of the United States Embassy in Khartoum, Sudan, despite his name being listed on a U.S. State Department terrorist watch list. The CIA knew of this but did nothing to impede on his arrival to the U.S. He would visit the Al Farooq Mosque in Brooklyn, and would in quick time have a small following who listened to his fiery sermons and denouncements of the United States. Many of these followers would go on to participate in the 1993 WTC bombing. Nevertheless “The Blind Shiek” Omar Abdel Rahman would also raise funding for the Afghan Mujahedin whenever he preached at the number of mosques in NYC. This would be the beginning stages of a new and profound ideology which would be given its headstart by none other than Abdullah Azzam…Defensive Jihad, the new Islamic call to arms and fight in a war that pertains to the spiritual as well as the physical. This ideology would replace the Pan Arabist nationalism which once dominated the Islamic spectrum in the Middle East and Southeast Asia.

February 1991, Mustafa Shalabi would be found murdered inside his home. Omar Abdel Rahman would become the driving force behind the Al-Kifah center and Al Farooq Mosque. Abdel-Rahman is said to have circulated a denunciation of Shalabi in early 1991 all in due part to a disagreement over whether funding should continue to help Afghans in their quest to rebuild the country or to use it to continue toe “jihad” against the United States. Ayman al-Zawahiri would also have a similar argument with Abdullah Azzam over what should be done with the continued funding. Azzam wanted to use the wealth it had generated, and the network it created to help install a pure Islamic government in post-war Afghanistan and opposed “fitna” among Muslims, including attacks against governments of Muslim countries. Al-Zawahiri wanted to use MAK’s assets to fund a global jihad, including the overthrow of governments in Muslim countries deemed un-Islamic. In 1989 just months after the end of the Afghan-Soviet war, Abdullah Azzam would be killed along with two if his sons when his car, which was outfitted with a bomb, exploded. No one was held responsible for the murder of Azzam, but it was suspected that it was either Osama Bin Laden or the CIA. Just weeks later the MAK offices were now under the total control of Osama Bin Laden and Ayman al-Zawahiri. In 1992, it was renamed, Al Qaeda.
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Welcome Adam. Nice to see you here.
 
If the US was experiencing war every other decade I can easily see nationalist militias spawning all across the country, and the very same people who jumped on the "don't let the terrorists win!" bandwagon themselves ready to carry out terrorist acts against our aggressors (and with the support of large portion of the population).
 
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Little-known fact: Osama bin Laden was a top baseball pitching prospect, but when he went undrafted by the major leagues he turned to terrorism.

But seriously, if you want to learn the roots of al Qaeda, read the Looming Tower. Another excellent book along those lines is The 11th Day, by Summers and Swan. Both books were Pulitzer finalists in their respective years of publication and the Looming Tower won the prize.
 
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Adam Fitzgerald said:
In 1991, Omar Abdel Rahman would enter the United States, he would be granted a temporary visa by the consul of the United States Embassy in Khartoum, Sudan, despite his name being listed on a U.S. State Department terrorist watch list.
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Abdel-Rahman was issued a tourist visa in 1990 and entered the US in July, 1990. The DoS revoked his visa in November, 1990. For some reason in April, 1991 he was issued a Green Card from the INS office in Newark, NJ. He went back overseas and was allowed to re-enter the US in August, 1991 because under US laws he had the right to appeal his immigration status.

The CIA knew of this but did nothing to impede on his arrival to the U.S.
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It.Was.Not.The.CIA's.Job.In.1991.

You could also add that the CIA didn't care, because in 1991 they didn't care. Nobody cared. Did the FBI put a tail on him? No. Why? They didn't care either. In 1991 both agencies would have been staring down a civil rights lawsuit claiming the US government was discriminating against a Muslim cleric, worse - a blind Muslim cleric. In 1991 there was nobody in management at the FBI nor CIA nor INS nor the USBP, nor the DoS who had the stomach for a career ending lawsuit.

Al Qaeda knew this. They used our open society against us. The irony is that they've turned us into the monster they wanted the unwashed to believe that we were prior to 2001.

Today? Today we'd put a 2000lb JDAM through whatever building Abdel-Rahman is in at the time the plane or drone shows up on station killing him and the family of believers he's staying with or having dinner with. Today the CIA actually has an in-house tactical operations unit which can slip into Abdel-Rahman's neighborhood and hose him down, or set off an IED. The CIA also has access to JSOC in ways not available in 1991, and thanks to 17 years of war our Tier-1 units are much more effective.

Today our CIA, JSOC, and drones rack up kills every week in the Middle East and North Africa and Afghanistan. Seems like all we're doing is creating more terrorists. We do these things now because Americans beat our elected officials over the head claiming that we were too soft on terrorism prior to 2001. Maybe it's me but short attention spans seem to be an American hallmark. In 1990 banning a "controversial" blind cleric would have been seen as an outrage. So what if he was Al Qaeda? Bin Laden would go to the Saudis in 1990 to offer Al Qaeda to take the lead in removing Iraq from Kuwait. Remember that? Almost like we had similar goals in 1990-91. And Abdel-Rahman wasn't any more vitriolic than many right-wing Christian TV preachers of the time (or even today). We have freedom of speech and freedom of religion and there's nothing that the government can do about it...

Also, it's still not the CIA's job to keep terrorists from lawfully entering the US. That's the INS, Customs, USBP, and FBI's job.
 
Axxman300 said:
Abdel-Rahman was issued a tourist visa in 1990 and entered the US in July, 1990. The DoS revoked his visa in November, 1990. For some reason in April, 1991 he was issued a Green Card from the INS office in Newark, NJ. He went back overseas and was allowed to re-enter the US in August, 1991 because under US laws he had the right to appeal his immigration status.







It.Was.Not.The.CIA's.Job.In.1991.



You could also add that the CIA didn't care, because in 1991 they didn't care. Nobody cared. Did the FBI put a tail on him? No. Why? They didn't care either. In 1991 both agencies would have been staring down a civil rights lawsuit claiming the US government was discriminating against a Muslim cleric, worse - a blind Muslim cleric. In 1991 there was nobody in management at the FBI nor CIA nor INS nor the USBP, nor the DoS who had the stomach for a career ending lawsuit.



Al Qaeda knew this. They used our open society against us. The irony is that they've turned us into the monster they wanted the unwashed to believe that we were prior to 2001.



Today? Today we'd put a 2000lb JDAM through whatever building Abdel-Rahman is in at the time the plane or drone shows up on station killing him and the family of believers he's staying with or having dinner with. Today the CIA actually has an in-house tactical operations unit which can slip into Abdel-Rahman's neighborhood and hose him down, or set off an IED. The CIA also has access to JSOC in ways not available in 1991, and thanks to 17 years of war our Tier-1 units are much more effective.



Today our CIA, JSOC, and drones rack up kills every week in the Middle East and North Africa and Afghanistan. Seems like all we're doing is creating more terrorists. We do these things now because Americans beat our elected officials over the head claiming that we were too soft on terrorism prior to 2001. Maybe it's me but short attention spans seem to be an American hallmark. In 1990 banning a "controversial" blind cleric would have been seen as an outrage. So what if he was Al Qaeda? Bin Laden would go to the Saudis in 1990 to offer Al Qaeda to take the lead in removing Iraq from Kuwait. Remember that? Almost like we had similar goals in 1990-91. And Abdel-Rahman wasn't any more vitriolic than many right-wing Christian TV preachers of the time (or even today). We have freedom of speech and freedom of religion and there's nothing that the government can do about it...



Also, it's still not the CIA's job to keep terrorists from lawfully entering the US. That's the INS, Customs, USBP, and FBI's job.
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My only objection is that by 1991 the CIA already knew about the 9/11 attacks, and had plenty of time to prevent them.
 
Axxman300 said:
Abdel-Rahman was issued a tourist visa in 1990 and entered the US in July, 1990. The DoS revoked his visa in November, 1990. For some reason in April, 1991 he was issued a Green Card from the INS office in Newark, NJ. He went back overseas and was allowed to re-enter the US in August, 1991 because under US laws he had the right to appeal his immigration status.



It.Was.Not.The.CIA's.Job.In.1991.

You could also add that the CIA didn't care, because in 1991 they didn't care. Nobody cared. Did the FBI put a tail on him? No. Why? They didn't care either. In 1991 both agencies would have been staring down a civil rights lawsuit claiming the US government was discriminating against a Muslim cleric, worse - a blind Muslim cleric. In 1991 there was nobody in management at the FBI nor CIA nor INS nor the USBP, nor the DoS who had the stomach for a career ending lawsuit.

Al Qaeda knew this. They used our open society against us. The irony is that they've turned us into the monster they wanted the unwashed to believe that we were prior to 2001.

Today? Today we'd put a 2000lb JDAM through whatever building Abdel-Rahman is in at the time the plane or drone shows up on station killing him and the family of believers he's staying with or having dinner with. Today the CIA actually has an in-house tactical operations unit which can slip into Abdel-Rahman's neighborhood and hose him down, or set off an IED. The CIA also has access to JSOC in ways not available in 1991, and thanks to 17 years of war our Tier-1 units are much more effective.

Today our CIA, JSOC, and drones rack up kills every week in the Middle East and North Africa and Afghanistan. Seems like all we're doing is creating more terrorists. We do these things now because Americans beat our elected officials over the head claiming that we were too soft on terrorism prior to 2001. Maybe it's me but short attention spans seem to be an American hallmark. In 1990 banning a "controversial" blind cleric would have been seen as an outrage. So what if he was Al Qaeda? Bin Laden would go to the Saudis in 1990 to offer Al Qaeda to take the lead in removing Iraq from Kuwait. Remember that? Almost like we had similar goals in 1990-91. And Abdel-Rahman wasn't any more vitriolic than many right-wing Christian TV preachers of the time (or even today). We have freedom of speech and freedom of religion and there's nothing that the government can do about it...

Also, it's still not the CIA's job to keep terrorists from lawfully entering the US. That's the INS, Customs, USBP, and FBI's job.
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Problem regarding Rahman obtaining a US Visa was that he was already on a terrorist watch list. He should have never have been even given an application, yet the Khartoum Embassy allowed him to obtain a visa multiple times. The Egyptian Security Services had long been aware of Rahman's activities when he was a remember of the Gamma Islammiyah,as well as issuing a fatwa against Egyptian President Anwar Sadat. Rahman served 3 years in prison and was released due to him being blind. He was a radical fundamentalist going back to the early 1970's and while he was primarily with Gamma Islammiya, it was the Egyptian Islamic Jihad under Ayman al-Zawwahiri and Muhammad abd-al-Salam Faraj who were responsible for the rise of Egyptian militancy after Sadats death in 1981. The CIA knew about Rahman even before Sadat;s assassination, this came from his financial fundraisers for the Mujahdeen while he visited Gulf States as well as the United States later on, since the CIA was funding the Afghan Mujhids thru the Mahktab al-Khidamat (Afghan Services Bureau) located in Peshawar, Pakistan and offices in Arizona and NYC all places Rahman was known to visit.

So when you say the CIA "didnt care" regarding the whereabouts of Rahman, i say you are being quite disingenuous. Very much like what happened with the September 11th attacks, they seemingly allowed a known terrorist to obtain a US Tourist Visa multiple times, and didnt bother to warn the FBI about him entering the country.
 
Adam Fitzgerald said:
So when you say the CIA "didnt care" regarding the whereabouts of Rahman, i say you are being quite disingenuous. Very much like what happened with the September 11th attacks, they seemingly allowed a known terrorist to obtain a US Tourist Visa multiple times, and didnt bother to warn the FBI about him entering the country.
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Again, in 1991 counter terrorism at Langley consisted of maybe six people. Their jobs were to make sure their field officers didn't end up getting killed or kidnapped. That was mostly it. DoS had a larger Counter Terror effort than CIA because US Embassies had long been targets for terrorists. They worked with the DIA more than the CIA in their intelligence efforts in those days.

In 1990 and 1991 the focus of the CIA was the fall of the Soviet Union, securing nuclear warheads in the newly freed Eastern Block states, and helping track down Stasi agents. Terrorism was not a priority in any way.

If Rahman's name came up in a report it would have been the same report that the FBI, Customs, INS, and DIA all got at the same time as the CIA. The difference being that the CIA doesn't work inside the US while the FBI, Customs, INS, and to some extent the DIA do. AND the terrorist watch list was maintained by the DoS, the same people who turned around and gave him tourist visa and later a Green Card. With that kind of of inefficiency why should the CIA have even bothered in 1991?

Seriously, the guy was on a State Department watch list. Why didn't the Customs Agent put him on the next plane home? Why didn't the INS haul him off to the nearest airport, it wasn't like he was hiding? And what about the FBI?

How is any of the the CIA's fault?
 
Adam Fitzgerald said:
Problem regarding Rahman obtaining a US Visa was that he was already on a terrorist watch list.
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You have to remember that 1991 was a long time ago and the world was a very different place. OBL and his people weren't even on the CIA's radar at the time. You need to remember that the US's main interest in the Middle East in 1991 was Iraq and Saddam. It would be another 2 years before the Battle of Battle of Mogadishu would cause the US a black eye and then the WTC Bombing would start to cause waves in the Intel community. It was also in 1993 that the CIA would first learn of AQ and OBL. It would still be another 4 years before Sudan started to offer information on them and things would start to take a more downward turn as AQ started to see the US as a threat.

It would be 7 years before the Kenyan Embassy bombings, and the FBI and CIA were still not taking AQ seriously.

It would be 9 years before the failed attack on the USS The Sullivans, followed by the successful attack on the USS Cole. This would be when the CIA and FBI started to take AQ semi-seriously as a danger, but still mostly as a threat in the Middle East. The report on the attack on the Cole and those responsible was not even finished at the time of the 9/11 attacks a year later.

The simple fact is that in 1991, the US didn't care is someone was on a Terrorist list, as long as they weren't doing it in the US. If you think that it's weird that they let in people on the ME terror lists, go and check how many members of the IRA they were letting in at the time.

Things were to change over the next decade to a feeling of "They are a threat outside of the US", until 9/11 changed that too in a rather dramatic fashion.
 
Axxman300 said:
Seriously, the guy was on a State Department watch list. Why didn't the Customs Agent put him on the next plane home? Why didn't the INS haul him off to the nearest airport, it wasn't like he was hiding? And what about the FBI?

How is any of the the CIA's fault?
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I'm not convinced that whether or not there should be blame of CIA is the appropriate starting point.

Surely the agreed aspect should be that the US government should have prevented his entry. It didn't and that, like so many other aspects of 9/11, is a failing of US Governance. Specifically as a minimum it is LIHOOI (Let It Happen Out Of Incompetence) at National level.

THEN from that starting point there are two threads of discussion:
(a) Review the Past happenings. Determine where were the breakdowns or short comings. (Which may lead to allocation of blame. Blame for past events??) But the focus should be on future and preventing recurrences;
THEREFORE - the more important question:
(b) have effective corrective actions been taken to minimise risk either of recurrence or of similar failings?
 
Haven't read many of the posts above... but terrorism which is a real "thing" can't be fought / ended with a military solution. For every (military" action there will be a "terrorist" reaction.... obviously not by those who were killed... but others step in to avenge their deaths and this cycle repeats ad infinitum.

911 begat the shock and awe and the invasion of Iraq... and that led to ISIS... and this will go on and on and on. Terrorists don't fight on a battlefield, have plane or naval vessels... traditional armies are useless to fight terrorists. That is unless the approach in blanket bombing.

The military is not evolving very much. Terrorism will continue as the only effective means for these people with a beef to make a statement... regardless of whether their beefs are legitimate or not.
 
The notion of radical Islamic militancy (Wahhabi Islam) is not a "revelation" unknown to the Intelligence Community here or abroad. Take for example, Sayyid Qutb, the Egyptian author and "godfather" of Wahhabi Political Islam. His works regarding what the "Religious Sector" needed to focus on was within the Arab Nationalist states, to infiltrate governments from within...then outward to the public. His works can be found in two books, "Milestones" and "In the Shade of the Qur'an". His views regarding secularism in the Western World and in the Arab countries which were led by secular governments changed when he visited the United States in 1948-1950. Qutb before he visited the U.S was considered "Westernized" himself, but that changed after he returned to Cairo in 1951. He immediately published "The America that i have seen", where in one quote:

"This great America: What is its worth in the scale of human values? And what does it add to the moral account of humanity? And, by the journey’s end, what will its contribution be? I fear that a balance may not exist between America’s material greatness and the quality of its people. And I fear that the wheel of life will have turned and the book of time will have closed and America will have added nothing, or next to
nothing, to the account of morals that distinguishes man from object, and indeed,
mankind from animals.”

Thus the understanding of secular values was considered a threat to the religious sector within Islam since this notion of "Westernization" was becoming a looming threat within countries like Lebanon, Syria, Algeria, Iraq and Egypt. At around this time Great Britain understood that Arab Nationalism also became a threat to the U.S-Great Britain coalition as they could not regulate the oil reserves of certain countries due to these independent Arab states which were in the peak stages of "Pan Arabism", this was readily seen under Egypt's President Gamel Nasser in the late periods of the 1940's. Nasser along with Shukri al-Quwatli (Syria) saw the rise of the Arab Republics and began implementing the works of, Darwish-Al Maqdidi, Miqdadi, as well as other Arab scholars, believed that a free and unified Arab nation could only exist if western influence was removed from the Arab Middle East. Generally, the core of Miqdadi’s beliefs, and others like his, became the philosophy of Pan Arabism. Thus the Muslim Brotherhood, which was the first Islamic organization and co founded by Qutb began to implement the ideologies of Haddith scholars such as Ibn Hambali and Ibn Tammiyah to co-exist within Islamic governments, but it needed the influence of someone within an area of government, they thought that person was Nasser, They were wrong.

While Nasser told Qutb and founder of the Muslim Brotherhood, Hassan Banna, that he would work together, Nasser began implementing a secret security service. But Nasser was aware of a plot to assassinate him once Qutb found out of Nasser's plans to oust the Muslim Brotherhood. In 1954 Qutb was arrested. The Egyptian government and its security service the Mabahith Amn El Dawla or in English, the State Security Investigations Service (SSI), began arresting many within the Muslim Brotherhood and those who were overtly religious. The SSI were notorious for their methods of torture, and Qutb in his first 3 years of prison was under harsh conditions, which were "relented". Qutb was released in 1964 under pressure from the Iraqi government, but was shortly re-arrested for of plotting to overthrow the state in 1965. He was sentenced to death, which was carried out in 1`966 by hanging. His death would be considered an act of "martyrdom" and this instance was considered the beginning of the rise of the Islamic religious sector. That act is still being felt today. It helped to create many Islamic radical cells in Egypt, such as Al-Jihad, Egyptian Islamic Jihad and Gamma Islammiyah. Radical Islamist's wouldn't stop growing, by 1980....the Islamic ascension rose to enormous heights with three major events...

1. The Seizure of the Saudi Arabia Grand Mosque and Kabaa.
2. Iranian Revolution
3. Afghan-Soviet War

During the war where the Soviets invaded Kabul in 1979, the United States used the CIA to funnel money, and later on weapons (stinger missiles) , to the Afghan Mujaheddin. This was under the Carter administration who tried to also at the same time try to have a more "profitable" relationship with the Arab states which was now beginning to see "Pan Arabism" being incrementally eliminated from within, as the religious sectors of Algeria, Afghanistan and Iran expand its militancy to the governments. Algeria saw a civil war which lasted over 10 years from the Armed Islamic Group of Algeria, Iran saw the rise of the Shia Islamic sect that overthrew the U.S backed dictator, Mohammad Reza Pahlavi, who was helped to power by a CIA led coup in 1953 over Mohammed Motassdegh.

Pan Arabism was being replaced by the Islamic religious ideologies of Sayyid Qutb and the founder of Wahhabi ideology which helped create the first Saudi state, Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab. Wahabbi Islam is considered a deviation from the Quran, yet this deviation, saw its ideology internally change governments over the last 100 years with assistance from Saudi scholors, imams and Hafiz who helped spread this ideology, none more so than with the Afghan-Soviet war which saw the rise of new militants. Abdullah Azzam, Osama Bin Laden, and Ayman a-Zawahiri. After the assassination of Egyptian president, Anwar Sadat by members of Al Jihad and Gamma Islamiyyah, mass weeps of arrests by the SSI into the religious sector and of course the rampant abuses of torture, which were quite unorthodox, saw many people falsely arrested. Two men, Omar Abdel Rahman and Ayman al-Zawahiri were examples of two men who were tortured under extreme conditions. While both men were released, it was under these conditions they saw themselves much like of their mentor, Sayyid Qutb. It reinforced and even made them more "extremist" in their views. This was even admitted by Ayman al-Zawahiri years later when he wrote in his own personal memoirs.

In 1976, The Faisal Islamic Bank of Egypt (FIBE) was created, it would be the first bank which catred to the Islamic Republic and was co founded by Saudi Prince Mohammed al-Faisal, members of the Muslim Brotherhood, which included the “Blind Sheikh,” Omar Abdul-Rahman. It was during this time Rahman, who was known to many around the world as being a radical imam for a dangerous sect (Gamma Islamiyyah). His visas were issued by CIA agents despite his appearance on a State Department terrorism watch list. No matter if the CIA, State Department, (as i have seen in comments above, that these agencies were "inept" or "lacking" in their departments) they were fully aware of Rahman's ideology and his group. Not to mention he was also an "asset" to the CIA, as he was funneling large sums of money from within the United States (Detroit, New York, Arizona) where Islamic centers named after the Mahktab al-Khidamat located on those cities. The CIA was funneling funds to the Mahktab al-Khidamat centers in New York and in Peshwar to help the Afghan Mujaheddin. All of this is historically accurate. It is the single largest CIA operation in its history to date, Operation Cyclone. Operation Cyclone was one of the longest and most expensive covert CIA operations ever undertaken when funding began with just over $500,000 in 1979, was increased dramatically to $20–$30 million per year in 1980 and rose to $630 million per year in 1987.

There were numerous warlords who were given large sums of money not just from the CIA but from the Pakistan ISI, Saudi GID, British MI6. Gulbuddin Hekmatyar (Hizib-i-Islami) and Rasol Abdul Sayyaf (Northern Alliance) were two examples. There is no evidence Osama Bin Laden, who openly refused, to be helped by the CIA, of taking money from any agency. Meanwhile Abdullah Azzam, a Pakistan Imam and founder of "defensive Jihad" where he promoted the idea of Jihad not just as an inward struggle but an actual physical struggle against secular invaders.....this new ideology began to manipulate the youth from Pakistan Madrassas in Islamabad and Peshawar. These young soldiers would replace the Arab Nationalists who were getting killed in the war. The ideology along with Wahhabi Islam which was spreading under the Saudi donations in the Gulf states and within the United States was rapidly ascending. After the war ended, the United States left Afghanistan, it saw two brutal civil wars, which killed more people than ten years of the war. Bin Laden returned to Saudi Arabia, and those who survived the war began to go back to their countries of origin....with their radical mindset still wanting to wage this new "jihad".

I won't bore you anymore further as i could expand more into the 1990's and 200's as the rise of Islamic militancy, which replaced the "Cold War' mentality. But its not as "black and white" as many think this is. Yes there are instances where the FBI and State Department didnt have the capabilities to understands or even confront this new "Frankenstein" monster of you will called "Wahhabi Islam" but....certain agencies (CIA) and other foreign intelligence services did help create this monster and even at times help make it grow....which on the other hand help to no avail create two problems. Conspiracy Theories (which help said agencies) and the actual problem of Islamic Militancy (which may help certain people in said agencies). I am not someone who defends conspiracy theories which cater to the "fantastical". Nor do i toe the line and promote "claims" made from a government narrative. I do tend to look at historical events with a careful, unbiased, point of view and be led by the evidence no matter where it takes me. For those who don;t know me personally, i co-host a podcast The darkened Hour, and i had helped make an 18 part series with Richard Cox in a series which can be seen on YouTube called "The Roads To 9/11". In that series i tend to talk about the rise of radical Islam and the Intelligence Community which leads to the events 9/11.

I must openly apologize to Axxman300 for claiming he was being "disingenuous" in one of his posts. Im not here for "confrontation" but rather to promote rational, cohesive discussion into this area which i find completely lacking into mt area of study which are the events of September 1th 2001.
 
theprestige said:
My only objection is that by 1991 the CIA already knew about the 9/11 attacks, and had plenty of time to prevent them.
Click to expand...

Axxman300 said:
Okay...

So why didn't they use this obviously secret time machine to change history by stopping the attacks?

I ask only because 1991 was ten years BEFORE 2001.
Click to expand...

Not to mention the fact that KSM had not even met OBL to present his plan until what, 1996? If the CIA knew about it before even KSM and bin Laden did, well then wow, that's some capability there. :rolleyes:

Man, these foreknowledge claims were circulating even back when I was active in this forum. Heck, even before; they were already old hat in 2008.
 
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