House Impeachment Inquiry

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Well, this is shaping up to be quite an experiment - I guess started various scores or years ago - whether this republic will stand. Conservatives used to be very loud, positively yelpish, in their support for the "original intent" of the framers of Constitution. This does sound rather shallow these days. Or did the Founding Fathers really intend to have George the Third's powers for the presidency?
 
varwoche said:
I'm not vindictive. In the interest of unifying the country, I'm ok if Trump and Rudy are sentenced to share a room at Motel 6 for the duration, ankle bracelets, no maid service.
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Rudy....you got some splaining to do.

I just love how Rudy had bot barrels pointed at Biden and somehow found the gun firing at him. He's like Daffy Duck trying to get Elmer Fudd to shoot Bugs.

Rabbit season, No duck season, rabbit season, duck season, rabbit season, duck season
 
Defying orders from Trump's State Department, Ambassador Yovanovitch has testified.
Yovanovitch said she had “minimal contacts” with Giuliani, adding: “I do not know Mr. Giuliani’s motives for attacking me.” She speculated that Giuliani’s associates “believed that their personal financial ambitions were stymied by our anti-corruption policy in Ukraine."
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Oh, Rudy, Rudy, Rudy!
 
JoeMorgue said:
They turn on Trump and support impeachment or even just stand back and let it happen more passively they'll lose Republican support without any gain in Democratic support. There's no percentage for them in that.

Support isn't a zero sum game.
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I'm not so sure about that. For one thing, some of them need Democrats or crossover voters to win general elections in purplish Red states. In my state the Republican senator could pay dearly if displaying excessive obeisance to Trump. I'm not sure how big a factor that is with other red-state Republicans.

I keep repeating, I strongly suspect that key GOP senators have damaging information on Trump that they are holding in reserve that could provide cover if they end up needing it. Probably not enough to get the votes to convict, but possibly enough for some senators to be calling for a thorough hearing of articles of impeachment.
 
Squeegee Beckenheim said:
It is perhaps worth bearing in mind when thinking about the Senate that Trump is currently losing support there over Syria. Whether that loss will be substantial enough to make a difference, and whether that loss is real rather than lip-service remains to be seen. But the current direction of movement for Senate Republicans is away from Trump.
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His ongoing tweets about the feckless Kurds probably won't help.

And I keep thinking they already have a "transcript" of the Erdogan call, based on the general leakiness of Trump's White House and the fact that there are probably Mideast hawks not happy with his decisions.
 
Trebuchet said:
Defying orders from Trump's State Department, Ambassador Yovanovitch has testified.

Oh, Rudy, Rudy, Rudy!
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This is well-stated.
She also said U.S. interests are “harmed” when “private interests circumvent professional diplomats for their own gain, not the public good.”
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I'm sure the house has something to say about this:

But Sondland’s lawyers also said he would not be able to comply with House Democrats’ subpoena for documents, saying that “federal law and State Department regulations prohibit him from producing documents concerning his official responsibilities.”
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Marcus said:
We only have two recent impeachments to compare to, Clinton and Nixon. Nixon saw that he was going to be convicted in the Senate and resigned. Yes I am speculating, as are we all, my speculation is that Trump will be impeached in the house but not convicted in the senate, and will not resign. Sure I could be wrong, and I will happily admit it if Trump resigns or is convicted, you might have noticed that I would not consider this a bad outcome.
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What I'm saying is the people so sure the Senate won't convict this criminal aren't considering the attrition of Trump Republican Senators, they aren't considering the public shift to seeing Trump for the crook that he is, and that will threaten the Senators' reelection if they stick with Trump.

Yes yes, we all know what the current sentiment of the GOP Senators are.

Look closely and you may find that sure thing being chipped away at.
 
JoeMorgue said:
Call it what you will, it worked. "The Family Values Crowd" seeking to right the wrong of the Office of the President being held by some sexually liberal pervert lead to the Bush years.
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A decade ago one might believe the Family Values Crowd were sincere. Now it's clear family values had nothing to do with it, partisan politics did.
 
Foolmewunz said:
Well, it failed. I know you're educated enough to know why it was REALLY set up that way.... to prevent the ignorant masses from electing a, say, incompetent lying boob with populist followers. It was designed to make sure "the right people" held power and so that the wiser heads in the state organizations could prevail over demagogues like Jackson and Trump. It's an elitist oligarchical rule. Core Republican values should hate everything about it.

Ah, but, it gets them the White House every few terms so it's okay, right?
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theprestige said:
Huh.
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Seriously, you don't understand Foolme's post? :rolleyes:

It's an excellent post, BTW.
 
Delvo said:
Another part of how you can tell at a glance that it isn't really about empowering the rural minority against domination by the urban majority is that the ratios never get adjusted to account for population shifts.
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Not only that but the current EC is not doing the same thing now as it did when the Constitution was written. So anyone claiming it does this or that or prevents this or that can't support those assertions using anything to do with the original intent.

Also consider, what was there when that was written, 13 states? Now there are 50. It makes a poor argument to claim the same EC is relevant today as it was when there was 13 states.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
What I'm saying is the people so sure the Senate won't convict this criminal aren't considering the attrition of Trump Republican Senators, they aren't considering the public shift to seeing Trump for the crook that he is, and that will threaten the Senators' reelection if they stick with Trump.

Yes yes, we all know what the current sentiment of the GOP Senators are.

Look closely and you may find that sure thing being chipped away at.
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I've mentioned it before. Yesterday as a matter of fact. What the GOP is doing now can change very dramatically. I lived through Watergate. There was little or no chance of Nixon being removed by the Senate for almost a year after the House got serious. The public was tired of Watergate, Watergate, Watergate. And then it started to move a lot quicker and got more and more serious and impeachment still seemed unlikely . But it went into overderive and then jumped to light speed. Keep in mind Nixon was not impeached by the House. The Articles of Impeachment had just been passed out of committee and were about to be voted on by the House as a whole when Republican Senators went to the White House and told Nixon that he had lost support of more than half the Republican Senators and he would be be convicted and urged him to resign.
 
If the polls continue to crater,it is going to be interesting.
If we get to the point where the GOP Congressional leaders make a trip to the White House to tell Donnie it's time to go before he takes the party down with him,,his reaction is going to really interesting since Donnie does not give a crap about the GOP except as a instrument of his will.
 
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dudalb said:
If the polls continue to crater,it is going to be interesting.
If we get to the point where the GOP Congressional leaders make a trip to the White House to tell Donnie it's time to go before he takes the party down with him,,his reaction is going to really interesting since Donnie does not give a crap about the GOP except as a instrument of his will.
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This is the problem with comparing the various impeachments. They are all very different and have very little in common.

That said, when the wall breaks in Donnies's stonewall, the information is likely to come flooding through. The flood for Nixon came fast as the result of the Supreme Court ruling that ordered the release of the White House tapes. Nixon was toast because it proved Nixon and the White House had been lying about it all.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
A decade ago one might believe the Family Values Crowd were sincere. Now it's clear family values had nothing to do with it, partisan politics did.
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One part/demographic of the former family values crowd was sincere, I think:

https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-d...ollege-educated-republican-women-are-extinct/

Quote of the Day: College-Educated Republican Women are Extinct
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In a recent interview, Steve Bannon declared that “The Republican college-educated woman is done. They’re gone. They were going anyway at some point in time. Trump triggers them.”

The Washington Post’s Philip Bump decided to check this out, and it turns out that Bannon is right:
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acbytesla said:
This is the problem with comparing the various impeachments. They are all very different and have very little in common.

That said, when the wall breaks in Donnies's stonewall, the information is likely to come flooding through. The flood for Nixon came fast as the result of the Supreme Court ruling that ordered the release of the White House tapes. Nixon was toast because it proved Nixon and the White House had been lying about it all.
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If Trump's supporters were to be confronted with the same sort of lying that Nixon was caught in ... they wouldn't care. They'd just shrug it off, or make excuses.

He's already lied many more times about things which are much more damning, and they haven't been the least bit dismayed by any of that. Why expect them to change?
 
quadraginta said:
If Trump's supporters were to be confronted with the same sort of lying that Nixon was caught in ... they wouldn't care. They'd just shrug it off, or make excuses.

He's already lied many more times about things which are much more damning, and they haven't been the least bit dismayed by any of that. Why expect them to change?
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Exposing him as a liar alone definitely won't do it.

They're going to have to out him as a LOSER. Someone getting his **** kicked. Someone who is NOT safe for them to be associated with, because he's small and weak and pathetic compared to his betters.
 
quadraginta said:
If Trump's supporters were to be confronted with the same sort of lying that Nixon was caught in ... they wouldn't care. They'd just shrug it off, or make excuses.

He's already lied many more times about things which are much more damning, and they haven't been the least bit dismayed by any of that. Why expect them to change?
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It's a good point. I thought about that. Maybe it won't make a difference. But we don't know it all yet. The last two weeks has been amazing and while I hate to use a cliche it very well may be the tip of the iceberg.
 
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