Cont: Brexit: Now What? 9 Below Zero

[P.J. Denyer]

I have often wondered which EU regulations are supposed to be so bad.

The imaginary ones. The ones that would have banned prawn cocktail crisps, bendy bananas, British sausages, three pin plugs. The one that meant we cant extradite Abu Hamza (yes I know), the one that means all 16 year olds will be conscripted into the EU Army, that won't let us have good, British, listeria in our kippers, or old newsprint on our fish & chips, and takes away our veto in 2022. Basically all the made up stuff, much of which came from the Telegraph which ran a steady drip, drip, drip of silly, untrue, scare stories most of which came from the imagination of a power hungry 'journalist' they picked up from the Times after he was fired for lying. Step forward Boris Johnson.

 

[Nessie]

This is nonsense and you know it. At the time of the votes it was THE LAW that we would leave on Halloween either with or without a deal. Mogg and others mostly voted against May's deal because they thought no deal was a better way of leaving.

Mogg changed to voting for the deal on the third occasion because, by then he feared that remainers were in the ascendancy and that the choice was between May's deal and no Brexit at all. He has since stated that he now regrets having voted for the deal.

It's clear that Mogg and other ERG members, whether or not they voted for May's deal once, are all committed to leaving the EU. Only an idiot would argue otherwise.

The remainers who voted against the deal - Grieve and his pals - did so because they were opposed to any form of Brexit. Grieve will likely still vote against any deal Boris brings back from next week's summit (if the EU offer one) He is a fanatical remainer and a clear liar and hypocrite for having the gall to stand as a Tory in the 2017 election where their manifesto clearly stated that no deal was a definite possibility.

That inability to agree will plague the UK for decades after leaving with a no deal, if that is what happens.

A no deal condemns the UK to a limbo existence where we are still very dependent on the EU, but have no say in what goes on in Europe. Where we are more reliant on the USA than before, but a USA that is more isolationist and disrespectful to the UK than it has been for decades. Where we are trying to get new deals with China and India, where we have a poor colonial legacy and baggage and they are now more powerful than we are. The WTO will become the next sapper of sovereignty from the UK, as people realise it has rules, we have to abide in them and we have no say in what happens.

The politicians will indulge in a huge blame game and no one will take responsibility and no one will be able to negotiate ourselves out of the mess.

 

[ceptimus]

You are missing the point.

May's deal would have delivered the referendum promise to leave the EU. That leavers opposed it shows us that we can not assume that any particular leave deal has the popular support. We can not say that May's deal is what the public voted for. Similarly we can not say that a hard brexit is what people voted for.
You have shown the referendum can not be relied upon. Thank you for that.

You completely ignored my point about it being the law that we would leave anyway. So the May's deal vote was, in law, a simple binary choice - do you prefer to leave with May's deal or with no deal?

Of course, remainers have since managed to change the law. They were always planning to do that which is why they also voted against May's deal.

 

[Tolls]

Because leaving without a deal would be a ******* catastrophe.
Which has been explained over and over again, but you persist in going "la la la la la".

And it would not even be a case of "getting Brexit done" as a No Deal would be only the start of proceedings, unless you think (which, frankly, wouldn't surprise me) that the UK would be prosperous sat on the sidelines under WTO terms with our largest trading partner.

 

[3point14]

Because leaving without a deal would be a ******* catastrophe.

Yeah, but some really rich people will become much, much richer.

The movers and shakers of the UK won't be subject to new EU tax laws.

Putin gets what he wants, which is a destabilised west. His shills have worked hard for that.


Brexit is doing exactly as it is intended to do.

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

As you know, I didn't think that was a good way to leave the EU. I'm glad it didn't pass and that we now have a chance to leave the EU in a more complete manner.

What advantages do you see to a No Deal Brexit when compared to remaining in the EU?

 

[Andy_Ross]

Where we’re at:

OUR ENEMY
The EU - anyone who sides with them is a collaborator who has “surrendered”.

OUR ALLY
A man who is happy to give the green light for murderous attacks on former allies because “they didn’t fight in Normandy” etc

 

[Lothian]

You completely ignored my point about it being the law that we would leave anyway. So the May's deal vote was, in law, a simple binary choice - do you prefer to leave with May's deal or with no deal?

Of course, remainers have since managed to change the law. They were always planning to do that which is why they also voted against May's deal.

I ignored your point as you defeated it yourself straight after. It was not a binary issue as refusing to back May's deal also gave the possibility that Brexit could be delayed or cancelled.

 

[Mojo]

You completely ignored my point about it being the law that we would leave anyway. So the May's deal vote was, in law, a simple binary choice - do you prefer to leave with May's deal or with no deal?

Of course, remainers have since managed to change the law. They were always planning to do that which is why they also voted against May's deal.

Brexiteers really hate the idea of parliamentary sovereignty, don’t they?

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

4 myths about what the public thinks about Brexit tackled

TL/DR version:

Rather than voters wanting to "Get Brexit Done" 2/3rds of the public believe it's more important to get the right terms than to leave quickly.

Rather than nobody having changed their minds about Brexit, 20% of voters have changed their minds, and most of the movement is towards Remain. If a second referendum were to happen, Remain would likely win. with 53% of the vote.

Rather than Leave winning again if nobody changed their mind, the death of older voters and younger people now being eligible to vote means that even if 100% of people who voted last time voted the same way again, Remain would likely still win.

Rather than baulking at the thought of a second referendum, more than 2/3rds of the public want there to be one.

 

[Lothian]

Brexiteers really hate the idea of parliamentary sovereignty, don’t they?

Come on, when it comes to sovereignty everyone knows Parliament is the enemy of the people. As well as the UK constitution and the UK legal system also being the enemy of the people
In fact seeing recent polling and the popular support for remaining, it is now obvious that the people are the enemy of the people.

 

[McHrozni]

Brexiteers really hate the idea of parliamentary sovereignty, don’t they?

Most seem to be supporter of Carl Schmitt and his führerprinzip.

McHrozni

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

Interesting video from an ardent Remainer describing what may have just happened in Ireland and how this will lead to a no-deal.



Summary:

• Boris Johnson has likely agreed to a deal involving a border in the Irish Sea
• He brings this deal to parliament
• Parliament approves it
• There isn't sufficient time to pass the other legislation to enable the deal to be put into law by 31 October
• The UK crashes out with no deal as planned

The ERG and DUP vote in favour of the deal because they know that the deal will never actually be implemented.

Any deal legislation would surely include a technical extension?

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

You completely ignored my point about it being the law that we would leave anyway. So the May's deal vote was, in law, a simple binary choice - do you prefer to leave with May's deal or with no deal?

Of course, remainers have since managed to change the law. They were always planning to do that which is why they also voted against May's deal.

its called parliamentary democracy mate. not a fan?

 

[Information Analyst]

The remainers who voted against the deal - Grieve and his pals - did so because they were opposed to any form of Brexit. Grieve will likely still vote against any deal Boris brings back from next week's summit (if the EU offer one) He is a fanatical remainer and a clear liar and hypocrite for having the gall to stand as a Tory in the 2017 election where their manifesto clearly stated that no deal was a definite possibility.

Irony so heavy light cannot escape it...

 

[Information Analyst]

Or "taking back control". I have often wondered which EU regulations are supposed to be so bad.

Leaver supporters seem to be incapable of identifying any such regulations, once all the made-up stuff in the British pro-Leave press has been excluded.

 

[3point14]

Leaver supporters seem to be incapable of identifying any such regulations, once all the made-up stuff in the British pro-Leave press has been excluded.

When you say 'British Press', in many, if not most instances, you mean the current PM...

 

[Information Analyst]

Of course, remainers have since managed to change the law. They were always planning to do that which is why they also voted against May's deal.

Really? How did they know that they'd get the chance due to Leavers being so spectacularly unable to get their act together?

 

[ceptimus]

Really? How did they know that they'd get the chance due to Leavers being so spectacularly unable to get their act together?

They weren't certain of course, but it looked like they had the numbers. Also, they had the speaker on their side - by the unwritten constitution, the speaker is supposed to act as an impartial umpire, but Bercow is far from impartial.

 

[Lothian]

They weren't certain of course, but it looked like they had the numbers. Also, they had the speaker on their side - by the unwritten constitution, the speaker is supposed to act as an impartial umpire, but Bercow is far from impartial.

It is his job to put the will of parliament before that of the Government. He has done that very well. Why do you hate British parliamentary sovereignty?