The Trump Presidency: Part 17

[Norman Alexander]

I predict that Trump is likely to go twitter-ballistic over this...

https://thehill.com/homenews/campai...chment-reaches-highest-level-in-fox-news-poll

When a Faux News poll shows a majority of people want impeachment and removal, Trump must know he is in serious trouble.

Depends if his front line filter-people show it to him without a quiet alteration. It's their jobs to keep him happy.

 

[Aridas]

ISIS and Erdogan richly deserve each other. Maybe ISIS can regroup and form a new caliphate: Turkey. Of course Erdogan will expect to be the caliph, which he’ll be promised right up to the time they slit his throat and hang his corpse upside down in Ankara or Istanbul.

I can’t figure out how Erdogan will handle the ISIS prisoners. Turkey could summarily execute them all, or just as easily, set them free in hopes that they kill as many Kurds as possible.

Last I heard, Turkey officially denounces ISIS while quietly funnelling very significant aid to them. I mildly suspect that Kurd civilians are in more danger from Turkey than the ISIS prisoners.

I hope to hell Trump is getting pressure to at least provide defensive air support to the Kurds, but I don’t think he can afford to cave and I have a hard time believing that his abandonment really is purely a function of his economic interests. I think there’s cowardice - he can’t stand the idea of even one U.S. military casualty - as well as some sort of blackmail going on. Of course all of this is pure speculation on my part and as such I’ll add this: He has probably asked Putin what he should do. And maybe Putin has answered: Get out of the way. Let someone with an actual strategy take over.

I wouldn't rule out that it's about his economic interests, but I, too, doubt that it's solely that. Cowardice sounds reasonable, but I think that your reason for such is very, very doubtful. He's extremely squeamish and hates the sight of blood by his own admission, but he won't have to face that if the fighting is over there. Remember, Trump is both all about Trump and he's pretty much a stereotypical weak and stupid bully who's fairly easily dominated by those he acknowledges as stronger like, say, Putin. The guy's so cowardly that he fires people on freakin' Twitter. It's not the idea of even one US military casualty, fairly certainly. Being scared of Erdogan and Putin and what they might do is far more likely, though I'd say that both fairly certainly have blackmail. Similarly, he's afraid of a loss of face because of half-heartedly making a defense that ends up in a loss.

"Asked about the Kurds, President Trump said that the Kurds did not help the US during WWII or in the Normandy invasion/ D-Day"

So **** them? Dunno. it's hard to tell what this loony means.

Mmm. But Russia did help the US during WWII (after Germany betrayed them), so we should help Russia?

"Trump said (of ISIS fighters): “Well, they’re going to be escaping to Europe. That’s where they want to go; they want to go back to their homes, but Europe didn’t want them from us.”

That doesn't even make grammatical sense, let alone any other kind.

Hmm? It makes perfect sense, even if it's rooted in lies. "They're the EU's problem, not ours, let them take care of them or be terrorized by them!" The Trump Administration tried before to get EU countries to take them in and handle them and failed, after all.

- With the assistance of voter suppression tactics (so thousands of people were unfairly disenfranchised)

Given the around 400K purged from the voting rolls in Georgia alone simply for not having voted in a couple prior elections... "thousands" is on the extreme low end of reasonable estimates. Fairly certainly, GOP shenanigans have altered election results by multiple percentage points, the kind of alteration that can turn a solid one or two percent lead in votes cast for Democrats into a solid one or two percent win by Republicans.

In other news...

Russian-backed NRA makes "largest contribution ever" to stop upcoming Democratic trifecta

Virginia state elections, specifically. Given the claimed financial troubles of the NRA and the convenient refusal of the Republicans of the FEC to allow any investigation at all before Moscow Mitch finally got his wish to disable the FEC and the confession that the NRA was just used as a Russian asset, one might maybe think that where the NRA's money is actually coming from is suspicious.

 

[The Don]

A lot is going to depend on how many of the GOP base are Mickey Mouse Republicans...people who will support anybody in the White House who has a "r" in back of his name, and how many are the Personaltiy Cult Kool Aid Drinkers. The first might be convinced that Trump is not good for the party,and they could get what they want with Pence without all the baggage, but the second are hopeless.

If it was 50 percent "deplorables" back in 2016 then it's likely to be somewhat higher now as loyal Republicans who can no longer stomach President Trump drift away.

 

[rdaneel]

GUess Donnie never heard of Juno Beach.....

Just read about a jounlists seeing US Special Forces soldiers in tears over this, and one saying "For the first time, I am ashamed to be an American".

I hope you rot in hell, Donald, I really do.

I looked up this story, found it on Fox News no less.

It's a minor point, but he only says he's ashamed, not that he's ashamed to be an American. Nevertheless, this is still a story that needs to be spread around.
That it's from Fox News means it might actually penetrate the Republican base and convince some of them that there is something wrong with this President.

 

[The Don]

Secretary of State Pompeo says that the US did not green light Turkey's latest military adventure in Syria.

The US did not give Turkey a "green light" for its offensive in northern Syria, US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo has said.

Mr Pompeo defended President Donald Trump's decision to withdraw US troops from the border area, which has sparked an outcry at home and abroad.

Turkey has now launched an assault on territory held by Kurdish-led forces.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-49995494

I suppose that, strictly speaking, this may be the case, he or President Trump may have not used the phrase "green light" but the withdrawal of US forces was interpreted by pretty much everyone else as tacit approval at least.

President Trump warned of devastating economic reprisals if Turkey overstepped the mark. The complete absence of any move from his Administration in this regard shows that, like so many Trump threats, this was empty words.

Meanwhile, I predict that Lindsey Graham's righteous indignation over this will morph into quiet approval over the next few days. IMO he'll claim that the President deserves his undivided support because of the threat to democracy presented by the House impeachment investigations and no more will be said on the subject and/or it will turn out that the Kurds were Islamicist Muslims after all

 

[The Don]

I've said it here a couple of times already. Abandoning an ally to be slaughtered is a supreme betrayal. A monstrous crime. Particularly when the reason is specious, the motive suspect, and the price to do otherwise so absolutely minimal. All flags across the US should be lowered to half staff and half mast. I can understand the report of a Special Forces member in theater weeping over this. Every American with a conscience should be too. As a Canadian, I'm heartsick over this.

I'm pretty sure that after one news cycle has passed, not that many people care too much. Brown people killing other brown people a long way away gets boring quickly.

I'm pretty sure that the same would happen here in the UK. We'd be outraged for a day or so and then it'll slip off the front pages and we'll go back to Brexit, football and whatever reality TV show is topping the ratings

 

[PhantomWolf]

Secretary of State Pompeo says that the US did not green light Turkey's latest military adventure in Syria.

Pompeo's nose is going to get so long he'll be stuck....

Unless he wants us to believe that he and Trump were the only ones on the planet the didn't know this was coming.

 

[The Don]

Pompeo's nose is going to get so long he'll be stuck....

Unless he wants us to believe that he and Trump were the only ones on the planet the didn't know this was coming.

Well, he's said it and there must have been a reason why he did. I guess he figured that enough GOP supporters would believe him.

Perhaps this is what GOP senators and representatives need to hear so that over the next 24-48 hours they can rein back their criticism of President Trump's withdrawal of US troops and turn it instead into criticism of Turkey and the Kurds for fighting.

 

[The Atheist]

Literally insane.

Why yes, he is.

He and millions of other voters. Spite won the 2016 election.

Finally, someone else understands.

I've been saying that for three years and people just don't get it.

 

[Minoosh]

The White House issued a press release on Sunday that Turkey was about to proceed with a long-planned incursion into Syria.

Today, President Donald J. Trump spoke with President Recep Tayyip Erdogan of Turkey by telephone. Turkey will soon be moving forward with its long-planned operation into Northern Syria. The United States Armed Forces will not support or be involved in the operation, and United States forces, having defeated the ISIS territorial “Caliphate,” will no longer be in the immediate area.

Is he now seriously claiming he didn't know about it? I mean, on Monday he also tweeted "warnings" to Turkey not to cross certain moral/ethical lines.

I can't believe this is going to fly in the Senate. Besides which, Congress will pass sanctions, probably with a veto-proof minority which will trigger another Trump meltdown and really annoy his handlers in the region.

 

[Aridas]

President Trump warned of devastating economic reprisals if Turkey overstepped the mark. The complete absence of any move from his Administration in this regard shows that, like so many Trump threats, this was empty words.

Alternately, the lack of devastating economic reprisals shows that Turkey hasn't overstepped the mark yet - and that there's not been time to delve into that further. To take that a step further, the Trump Administration will likely be too busy refusing to honor subpeonas to properly delve into that, so if the Democrats are actually interested in letting Trump fulfill that promise of his, they should just be a rubber stamp for Trump. There's also the potential for crippling sanctions that get quietly lifted after a month or so.

 

[Andy_Ross]

Trump Tweets

A different take!

Yahoo News
@YahooNews
NEW: Asked about the Kurds, President Trump says they "didn't help us in the Second World War, they didn't help us with Normandy" and that they're fighting for "their land."

In case the Kurds or Turkey lose control, the United States has already taken the 2 ISIS militants tied to beheadings in Syria, known as the Beetles, out of that country and into a secure location controlled by the U.S. They are the worst of the worst!

Impeached for what, having created the greatest Economy in the history of our Country, building our strongest ever Military, Cutting Taxes too much?

 

[Mojo]

As disheartening as the rest of this FB post is, at the end the poster says Trump is “undeniably unfit [for office].”

Unfortunately, a significant proportion of his support base seems to see that as a reason for voting for him.

 

[The Great Zaganza]

No doubt Trump thought he could get on the good side of Putin and Erdogan with letting the invasion proceed. His tweet about destroying Turkey's economy does the opposite.

Trump isn't playing chess, he is paying Chutes and Ladders without the ladders: one step forward, a giant slide backwards.

 

[Ryokan]

Secretary of State Pompeo says that the US did not green light Turkey's latest military adventure in Syria.

Screw the Ukraine conversation, I want a transcript with Trump's conversation with Erdogan. What was it that convinced him to sell out the Kurds?

 

[Puppycow]

Can we pause for a moment to consider this tweet by Trump:

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1181905659568283648

OK, it's actually two tweets.

The United States has spent EIGHT TRILLION DOLLARS fighting and policing in the Middle East. Thousands of our Great Soldiers have died or been badly wounded. Millions of people have died on the other side. GOING INTO THE MIDDLE EAST IS THE WORST DECISION EVER MADE IN THE HISTORY OF OUR COUNTRY! We went to war under a false & now disproven premise, WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION. There were NONE! Now we are slowly & carefully bringing our great soldiers & military home. Our focus is on the BIG PICTURE! THE USA IS GREATER THAN EVER BEFORE!

(I removed the mid-sentence ellipses, but otherwise, that's verbatim.)

Who would have imagined a Republican president would say these words, say 10 years ago? Not merely a mistake but "THE WORST DECISION EVER MADE IN THE HISTORY OF OUR COUNTRY!" and on a false and dis-proven premise. Back in 2007, that sort of talk wouldn't have been very popular in mainstream Republican circles. It sounds like something Code Pink might say. Remember how The Dixie Chicks were blacklisted for their "unpatriotic" stance against the war? Remember "Freedom Fries" because the president of France opposed the war? The NY Post, which now supports president Trump called them "Cheese-Eating Surrender Monkeys" because of it. Now Trump says, Chirac was absolutely correct. It was the worst decision ever in the history of the United States.

Also, Obama ran in 2008 on the idea that the Iraq war was a bad idea. Did Trump say anything in support of Obama at the time? Not that I can recall. I only remember his obsession over Obama's birth certificate.

 

[Minoosh]

Meanwhile, I predict that Lindsey Graham's righteous indignation over this will morph into quiet approval over the next few days. IMO he'll claim that the President deserves his undivided support because of the threat to democracy presented by the House impeachment investigations and no more will be said on the subject and/or it will turn out that the Kurds were Islamicist Muslims after all

I seriously don't think it's going to work out that way. Erdogan said, "You should leave because we're planning an invasion." Trump said, "We'll leave." It's not that I expect to see great loyalty to the Kurds in the Senate; maybe there will be some, but I think they're pretty pissed that Trump did not push back on Erdogan *at all*. Then there's the issue of washing his hands of 11,000 imprisoned ISIS fighters.

I strongly suspect that key senators are sitting on lots more examples of Trump malfeasance. I also think they hear from former Administration people like Jim Mattis, John Kelly or such. Not necessarily those two, but people like them. Even if Lindsey Graham pivots to acting subservient many things will still be happening behind the scenes related to longstanding differences they have had with Trump over things like the Khashoggi murder, his conduct in Helsinki, sanctions on Russia. Unanimously they announced Russia interfered substantially with U.S. elections. The vote to see the whistleblower report was also unanimous. In and of themselves these incidents might be glossed over but taken as a whole they have IMO sparked pervasive suspicion and dislike of Trump. And everything we the public know is probably the tip of the iceberg. But, of course, I'm guessing.

Kudos to the UK readers who are taking the time an energy to contribute to these threads while their own country is in such a precarious state. I try to keep up but it's almost impossible. Anyway I appreciate what I'm learning in that thread. Thanks.

 

[Puppycow]

What is must be like to be Liz Cheney right now, who had done a lot of sucking up to Trump until recently.

https://twitter.com/Liz_Cheney?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^author

Unlike Liz, Trump doesn't care about her father's legacy, only his own.

I stand with @realDonaldTrump and our men and women in uniform who will never surrender to terrorists, unlike @RandPaul, who seems to have forgotten that today is 9/11.

(She tweeted that suck-up on 9/11)

Check out her Twitter spat with Rand Paul.

Now?

Withdrawing US forces from Northern Syria is a catastrophic mistake that puts our gains against ISIS at risk and threatens US security.

This decision ignores lesson of 9/11. Terrorists thousands of miles away can and will use their safe-havens to launch attacks against America.

 

[kellyb]

Can we pause for a moment to consider this tweet by Trump:

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1181905659568283648

OK, it's actually two tweets.


(I removed the mid-sentence ellipses, but otherwise, that's verbatim.)

Who would have imagined a Republican president would say these words, say 10 years ago? Not merely a mistake but "THE WORST DECISION EVER MADE IN THE HISTORY OF OUR COUNTRY!" and on a false and dis-proven premise. Back in 2007, that sort of talk wouldn't have been very popular in mainstream Republican circles. It sounds like something Code Pink might say. Remember how The Dixie Chicks were blacklisted for their "unpatriotic" stance against the war? Remember "Freedom Fries" because the president of France opposed the war? The NY Post, which now supports president Trump called them "Cheese-Eating Surrender Monkeys" because of it. Now Trump says, Chirac was absolutely correct. It was the worst decision ever in the history of the United States.

Also, Obama ran in 2008 on the idea that the Iraq war was a bad idea. Did Trump say anything in support of Obama at the time? Not that I can recall. I only remember his obsession over Obama's birth certificate.

Trump frequently ran on stuff like that in 2015/2016. It was a his primary diss on ["low energy"] Jeb.

I figure GW Bush's exceedingly low popularity rating towards the end of his presidency, even with Republicans, showed Trump and his strategists that there was an anti-war "from the right" "in" with that take.

 

[Minoosh]

Trump meanwhile is dialing back some of his dire warnings to Turkey, as quoted by the Daily Beast:

But by Wednesday afternoon, Trump appeared less committed to the fire and fury in the wake of the invasion, but indicated he had no problem with Graham’s sanctions and still promised to “wipe out” Turkey’s economy if Erdoğan attempted to “wipe out” the Kurds.

“We’re speaking to both sides. We’ve told President Erodgan how we feel, but we are speaking to both sides and we’re seeing what can be made out of a situation, but we have no soldiers in the area,” Trump told reporters when asked about the decision to abandon the Kurds. “We are getting out of the endless wars. We have to do it.”

So sad, we have no soldiers in the area.