Equation for dilluting a substance too much?

[Kumar]

I didn't say I was unable to find out. I asked you to provide a link. You refused, so I have to assume you didn't actually want to discuss it. If now you do, provide a link. I will not go looking for your evidence for you.[/b]

Bit contradictory.

Your "critical" investigations leave much to be desired.

If you want ro gain knowledges, unbiased.

No, you are trying to have your cake and eat it too. In the other thread you claimed that the scientific method can't evaluate homeopathy. Here you claim it can. Obviously you are lying either here or there.

I think you misunderstood/misinterpreted my post.

Nope, I mean obsolete, useless, worthless, arcane, meaningless, irrelevant. Don't try putting words in my mouth. It's incredibly similar to your "I think" statements, you are always wrong.

Pls avoid absolute words, it is still existing legally in many countries with great success. How then it can be as you claimed somewhat absolutely. Do you say "old can't be gold". Why people gold or other precious but older items instead of stainless steel or any other new metal/stone etc. Are those olderones also obsolete etc.....

 

[Kumar]

That'll be the day.

The thing is that finally, after 200 years, homeopathy seems to be coming under serious fire. After hiding under that stone for ages, the heat is mounting. Another "widely accepted since long" fallacy is beginning to bite the dust.

As can expected, the reactions are desparate. Just look at the homeopathy forums: Some argue for trying to discredit "allopathy", Pakistani homeopaths move for not referring patients to surgeons that are not pro homeopathy, all the ancient strawmen are summoned, the long-dead horses are flogged yet again, etc, etc. Interestingly, not one of them suggests that they hurry up and prove that homeopathy works. Go figure .

Kumar, your emperor has no clothes .

Hans

Public have to speak, might can be right, entitled system can exist better for commons, emperor may not has cloth....still body(natural) is there.

 

[Kumar]

And, since you elsewhere tell us that you spend 10 hours daily at the computer, we know it is not the time you are lacking .

Then what? Even 1000 years may not be sufficient for some. My homelife becoming very bad for.... If time is there I can utilize there.

No, Kumar. She has the brains.

Yes, therefore I want her involvements.

Translation: I am too lazy to try seriously, and anyway it's way over my head.



Translation: But if you will do some more of my homework for me, I'm always ready to misinterpret it and twist it beyond recognition.



Translation: Although I much prefer just to shoot silly ideas into space without any interference.


Hans

Sorry, as this post was addressed to Rolfe, she can translate it. She has brain.

 

[MRC_Hans]

Then what? Even 1000 years may not be sufficient for some.

A rare moment of self-recognition, congratulations.

Translation: I am too lazy to try seriously, and anyway it's way over my head.

Translation: But if you will do some more of my homework for me, I'm always ready to misinterpret it and twist it beyond recognition.

Translation: Although I much prefer just to shoot silly ideas into space without any interference.


Sorry, as this post was addressed to Rolfe, she can translate it. She has brain.

She certainly has. But I'm the resident Kumarese specialist.

...At your service .

Hans

 

[Kumar]

A rare moment of self-recognition, congratulations.

She certainly has. But I'm the resident Kumarese specialist.

...At your service .

Hans

Thanks, then awnser dynamically.

 

[Mojo]

Pls avoid absolute words, it is still existing legally in many countries with great success.

No. It exists legally with no success beyond that expected for a placebo.

Kumar, whether homoeopathy is legal or not has no bearing on whether it works. Governments cannot change the way things work through legislation. If something doesn't work, a government cannot make it work by passing laws. To quote Chief Justice Brennan in Rout v. Hutchinson:

This Court does not have any jurisdiction over the laws of mathematics and physics.

This applies just as much to the laws of chemistry, biology and medicine.

 

[MRC_Hans]

Thanks, then awnser dynamically.

I can assure you my awnsers are very dynamically .

Hans

 

[Donks]

Kumar means that I know what study he's talking about. It's an excellent study that shows individualised homoeopathy to have no effect. Geni mentioned it, and I provided a link to the abstract just to rub Kumar's face in it.

...snip...

Rolfe.

Actually I have a pretty good idea which study Kumar meant. I just didn't feel like looking for it. If he wants to use it as evidence, he better link to it.

Oh... And I also knew exactly what Kumar meant... I was just tossing out a compliment...

 

[Rolfe]

This "energy", you know, the "subtle energy" in those remedies that gets all upset if the patient is given any steroid medication (but doesn't seem to mind all the natural steroids sloshing around everybody's body), how is it measured? What units are used? Does it obey the laws of thermodynamics?

Rolfe.

Be careful, being a doctor, you should be understanding differenciating/toxic effects can be in quantity may not be in quality. You said "subtle energy" at one hand and "somewhat toxic indirectly" on the other hand--bit contradictary.

First, let me explain where the "subtle energy" quote came from. It is part of the explanation given in a book by two homoeopathic vets for why (they believe) homoeopathy doesn't work if real medicine is given at the same time.

There is little doubt that most orthodox drugs impede the action of homeopathic remedies. This is not surprising when one considers that the action of most of these medicines is in direct contradiction to that of homeopathy; anything which suppresses a reaction of the body will act counter to homeopathy, and considering the subtle energetic nature of homeopathic medicine it is only logical that such powerful drugs as corticosteroids and NSAIDs will antidote its effects.

Now, the first question I want answered about this is, what is this "subtle energy". How is it measured? In what units? And how does it behave in respect of the laws of thermodynamics? Since there is precisely zero chance I can get the book's authors to answer me, I ask the question here.

Not getting an answer, apparently.

"Somewhat toxic indirectly"? Where did I say that, Kumar? What was I referring to? Doesn't sound like the sort of thing I might say. So, prove I said it, please, and show what the comment was referring to. It's not polite to attribute quotes to people when they in fact have said no such thing. "Be careful."

Now the other thing I'd like to ask the authors of that book is, if corticosteroids antidote the effects of this "subtle energy", how can it ever have any effect on a living organism? Given that every living organism is pretty much awash with endogenous corticosteroids.

Rolfe.

 

[Donks]

Bit contradictory.

Nope, no contradiction there. If you want to discuss a study or, even worse, use it as evidence, you damn well better link to it.

If you want ro gain knowledges, unbiased.

You haven't gained any knowledge since you first came here...

I think you misunderstood/misinterpreted my post.

Which one, the one you claim that this study backs you up in some way, thus showing that homeopathy can be examing using the scientific method, or the one where you said that homeopathy coudn't be examined using the scientific method?

Pls avoid absolute words, it is still existing legally in many countries with great success.

Define success. If you define it as "effectiveness in treating illness", then provide evidence. If you define it as "effectiveness in taking money from ill people" then I accept your assertion.

How then it can be as you claimed somewhat absolutely. Do you say "old can't be gold". Why people gold or other precious but older items instead of stainless steel or any other new metal/stone etc. Are those olderones also obsolete etc.....

I didn't say "old can't be gold", I said homeopathy is arcane, obsolete, worthless, useless, and a couple of other terms I forgot. Plus, you seem to have missed the point of my original line. Homeopathy is 200 years old and stil produces no verifiable positive results. The damning part here is that it produces no verifiable positive results.

 

[Mojo]

Now the other thing I'd like to ask the authors of that book is, if corticosteroids antidote the effects of this "subtle energy", how can it ever have any effect on a living organism? Given that every living organism is pretty much awash with endogenous corticosteroids.

Ah, well, the endogenous corticosteroids are happy natural corticosteroids full of positive energies, whereas the ones given as treatments are NASTY EVIL CHEMICALS! Look, even the allopaths admit that they are "drugs" and we all know drugs are bad for you, don't we!

 

[Rolfe]

Rolfe,

It takes lot of time & brain to study not just read a study in full dynamically & contradict. You may be having such time. I have put my points by such studying once & don't want to repeat ....

I don't believe you even read the paper. You simply realised you didn't like the conclusions and declared that it was probably biassed. If you have anything further to say, then say it. Otherwise we know what to think.

I repeat what I have concluded from the study. The patients were treated exactly as homoeopaths like to treat patients. They did all the history-taking and the remedy-matching, and they were allowed to individualise as much as they liked. More than one homoeopath was involved, so it wasn't just a case of one incompetent individual. The homoeopaths taking part conferred occasionally to ensure that each of them agreed that the others were approaching the cases in a porper manner. No problems were reported.

The blinding was extraordinarily secure, involving a solicitor who had no idea of the identities of anyone sending out the randomised remedies/placebos. The scoring of the patients' condition after the trial was as objective as possible.

And there was no difference between the group who got their carefully individualised remedies and the group who didn't.

What about this do you have a problem with, Kumar?

Rolfe.

 

[MRC_Hans]

*snip*
What about this do you have a problem with, Kumar?

Rolfe.

Vested interests?
Bit undynamic thinking?
Pls avoud absolute words?
Still existing legally?
All people can't be wrong since long?
Kabunglestoff?
Blibbledroot?

...Just trying to help there, Kumar .

Hans

 

[Kumar]

No. It exists legally with no success beyond that expected for a placebo.

Kumar, whether homoeopathy is legal or not has no bearing on whether it works. Governments cannot change the way things work through legislation. If something doesn't work, a government cannot make it work by passing laws. To quote Chief Justice Brennan in Rout v. Hutchinson: This applies just as much to the laws of chemistry, biology and medicine.

you are concerned with the operation of mathematical and physical rules. That is, no doubt, a matter of great importance. This Court does not have any jurisdiction over the laws of mathematics and physics

Mojo, above from your link. It is about maths & physics. These are atleast having some fixed theories & calculations. Moreover, these can be different in different countries & mass people withness is there, to prove it. So any govenment/authority, who made it legal should be having these firm bases or live evidances as witnesses. On other side, if we say your type of evidances are non-absolute( not free from perfections, can change/discarded as per new findings), those can be treated as weak evidances.

Moreover, why one would like to involve unnecessary.

Anyway it is one's choice/luck, so I don't want to say more & get bad thoughts for trying good.

ETA.

 

[Kumar]

Rolfe,

"Be careful..."

I become...

Sorry, there is some language problem. I have taken meaning of your post as, "How steriods can effect "subtle energy" in remedies when natural steriods are used in preparing these. I thought you, indicated something in response of my remarks on asthma study. This topic/current discussions were also alike it, so it happened. Anyway you meant differently, so my mistake in understanding due to language problem.

Now my thought about your questions are, natural steroids in our body may not be imbalanced/excess/accumulated normally, but these can be excess at any time if taken exogenously. As yet, homeopathic subtle energy couldn't be known by science, so can't be measured in units may be as "prime force of all forces couldn't yet be known in science, but is observed & experianced by its community in mass.

I hope, it will clear.

 

[Kumar]

I can assure you my awnsers are very dynamically .

Hans

Thanks, but Playing table tennis in lawn tennis ground or on billiard table or contradicting other systems directly may not be the dynamism, but can be FIGHT. There can be some other means.

Btw, since you studied "other subtle energy based systems" to much, can these make people alike "Adam's or Eve's" constitution as per their theory?

Understand it dynamically & tell me what... unabling me to know your dynamics understanding capability?

 

[Rolfe]

As yet, homeopathic subtle energy couldn't be known by science, so can't be measured in units may be as "prime force of all forces couldn't yet be known in science, ....

So, why should anyone trust their health to this nonexistent phenomenon?

Oh yes, experienced in mass. No, you really do have to face the fact that it is possible to fool a great many people for a great deal of the time. It really is possible for large numbers of people to be mistaken.

Rolfe.

 

[MRC_Hans]

Thanks, but Playing table tennis in lawn tennis ground or on billiard table or contradicting other systems directly may not be the dynamism, but can be FIGHT. There can be some other means.

Btw, since you studied "other subtle energy based systems" to much, can these make people alike "Adam's or Eve's" constitution as per their theory?

Understand it dynamically & tell me what... unabling me to know your dynamics understanding capability?

Even I can't decypher this one.

Kumar, you excuse yourself with language problems. If you feel you have language problems, why do you keep using weird metaphors, self-invented abbreviations, private definitions, etc. etc? If you really care to make yourself understood, write in simple, short sentences, using standard definitions of words.

...And forget about using poetic metaphors.

...And don't use slashes.

...AND DO proof-read your posts; the very least you can do is take the trouble to correct simple typing errors.



......But I suppose the veil of ambiguity serves your purpose well .

Hans

 

[Rolfe]

I think that "lawn tennis" is his metaphor for the patient survey sort of test (mass existing and well distributed since long....), and that's the game he wants to set up and play. He is annoyed and believes we are spoiling for a fight when instead we try to play the controlled blinded trial game ("table tennis"?) on his lawn tennis court.

Sorry Kumar, that's not how it works around here.

Rolfe.

 

[Mojo]

I think that "lawn tennis" is his metaphor for the patient survey sort of test

I though it was his oblique way of objecting to the game of Mornington Crescent going on in the Hyperinsulinemia/Diabetes thread.