• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

How do psychic mediums know stuff about you

No one here but me knows what they are talking about.

A little arrogant, don't you think?

I have experienced genuine mediums many times since the 1960's. Its not all hot and cold reading.

That doesn't mean it's real. I have personal experience with people who claim to be genuine mediums and who know for a fact they are lying. I know for a fact they use ordinary tricks to pretend to have supernatural powers, because we discussed the tricks they use. Why is my experience less informative or less valuable than yours?

All you're telling us -- riding high in the saddle of colossal hubris -- is that you can't figure out how your "medium" accomplished the feat. You don't know that it was through some supernatural means; that's just your default hypothesis when your understanding of prosaic explanations fails.
 
You really needn't be afraid.
Not only is this stuff not true, but I don't get what would "freak out" anybody about that. It would make no difference in the life of anybody who just didn't go to mediums anyway.

It's nothing more than people being talented at cold reading and for some, cheating further via hot reading.
The biggest factor is the audience. The people who go for this kind of stuff invariably end up reporting that what the con artist had did & said was something completely different from what the con artist actually did & said.
 
A little arrogant, don't you think?.

Not if I am right and there are genuine mediums, because that makes everyone else here wrong.

That doesn't mean it's real. I have personal experience with people who claim to be genuine mediums and who know for a fact they are lying. I know for a fact they use ordinary tricks to pretend to have supernatural powers, because we discussed the tricks they use. Why is my experience less informative or less valuable than yours?

All you're telling us -- riding high in the saddle of colossal hubris -- is that you can't figure out how your "medium" accomplished the feat. You don't know that it was through some supernatural means; that's just your default hypothesis when your understanding of prosaic explanations fails.

I went to church every week for two years before coming to the conclusion that the simplest explanation of what was happening, is that mediums were doing what they said they were doing, and talking to the spirits of the dead.
In that time I had a number of convincing personal messages. I had regular messages from my grandmother, and one from my grandfather telling me he wanted to give me evidence of survival, so he told me the circumstances of his death. Also the one from a dead brother I did not even know I had.
 
the simplest explanation of what was happening, is that mediums were doing what they said they were doing, and talking to the spirits of the dead.

That's only simple on a superficial level, scratch below the surface and you're left trying to fit your plywood sheep into a jigsaw puzzle of the Mona Lisa again. The simple answer has been explained time and time and time again in this thread.
 
...the simplest explanation of what was happening, is that mediums were doing what they said they were doing, and talking to the spirits of the dead...
To (paraphrase) a quote from an experienced magician, "They may indeed be genuine psychics, but if they are, they are producing the appearance of doing it the hard way."
 
I went to church every week for two years before coming to the conclusion that the simplest explanation of what was happening, is that mediums were doing what they said they were doing, and talking to the spirits of the dead.
And the simplest explanation of the trick I saw David Copperfield do is, then, that he really can saw himself in half and put himself back together again? After all I can't work out how he could have faked it and that, according to you, is sufficient reason to conclude he really did it.
 
Last edited:
And the simplest explanation of the trick I saw David Copperfield is then that he really can saw himself in half and put himself back together again? After all I can't work out how he could have faked it and that, according to you, is sufficient reason to conclude he really did it.

Criss Angel can fly! Criss Angel can fly! Why isn't this continually on the news?
 
Trickery/deception is always the simplest explanation for “psychic” phenomenon because it requires the least amount of assumptions. There is no better authority on using trickery/deception than an experienced magician/mentalist. That’s why Randi was such a good debunker. He approached things from: “I can reproduce exactly the same effect through magic techniques, if I eliminate the possibility of using those techniques, you will fail to achieve the effect,” which has been the nail in the coffin for just about anyone who has subjected themselves to his test.

The one that had a big effect on me when I was a young believer was the exposure of James HydrickWP.
 
Not if I am right and there are genuine mediums, because that makes everyone else here wrong.

That requires you to prove you're right first, to a suitable standard of proof. Then you can make categorical statements about others' correctness. What was arrogant about your statement was to claim you're right before you proved you're right. So prove there are genuine mediums. Note: proof does not mean recounting your tired anecdotes over and over.

I went to church every week for two years before coming to the conclusion that the simplest explanation...

Your anecdote illustrates my argument instead of rebutting it. You looked at all the observations, couldn't figure out how it was done naturally, and concluded it must be supernatural. No, it's not "simple" because it requires antecedents for which you have no evidence. You have to contrive into existence a whole bunch of supernatural things in order for that explanation to work. Just because you believe them intuitively and don't feel like questioning them doesn't absolve you of the need to prove it before you can bask in your claim of superior knowledge.
 
Last edited:
Criss Angel can fly! Criss Angel can fly! Why isn't this continually on the news?

Most of Criss Angel's television magic is based on television magic. When magicians tell you that "no camera tricks" are being used, what they really mean to say is that every camera trick is being used. When he was building up his stage show, the problem he faced was that his stage game was rather weak compared to other stage magicians in the city. He had to work hard to get a show that Cirque du Soleil felt comfortable collaborating with him on.
 
That's only simple on a superficial level...

Agreed. It buries all the assumptions of supernatural causes and effects. To be sure, there is assumption in either attempt to explain clairvoyance. So the goal is not to explain the observations without assumption. It's to explain them with the fewest, most reasonable assumptions.

We know there exist techniques to simulate supernatural effects. We know that people use them to support the proposition that they have supernatural ability. Their motives for doing so vary in moral value from entertainment to fraud. Regardless, almost all those motives are frustrated by widespread publication of those techniques. Thus while some of the techniques are well known, we cannot suppose that all are. But it is not necessary to suppose that large numbers of people must be kept in the dark in order for the enterprise to succeed. It is necessary only that the intended subject not perceive the technique. Or, in the case of entertainment, that the intended subject have less interest in discovering the technique than in watching it operate.

In a different thread, Scorpion proposed that a similar framework could exist for the supernatural hypothesis. He proposed that the spiritual powers that be concealed their existence and influence to achieve a dharmic effect. But his argument was riddled with holes and inconsistencies. He couldn't make it work or demonstrate that any part of it was supported by evidence. At least here, the existence of a spiritual world qualifies as an extraordinary claim requiring extraordinary proof. You can't assume them into existence, cobble them together into a framework that vaguely resembles the prosaic explanation, and ask people to accept that this is simpler.

For any given anecdote, the obstacle is generally that no further evidence can be developed to test variants of the trickery-and-deception hypothesis. This is why skeptics want professed abilities to be demonstrated under controlled circumstances, and why the unscrupulous practitioners shun them. The question is then what is reasonable to believe in the absence of that opportunity. I contend it is perfectly reasonable to presume that the reported observations are more likely due to a trickery-or-deception technique, even if unknown, than to actual supernatural operation.

That presumption is requires some assumptions. First, the purpose of the natural techniques is to mimic what are supposed to be supernatural effect. We assume this effort succeeds in a reasonable number of cases.

Second, the proposed natural technique has to explain the observations. We don't circularly assume they do. Instead, we note that the skill of the illusionist depends in part on special knowledge of natural phenomena, human capacity and nature, etc. Further, we see countless examples of stage magic that prove the ability of this knowledge to create observations that defy superficial hypotheses. Thus we assume that our impression that the observations exceed most proffered hypotheses does not preclude us from a reasonable presumption.

Third, the proposed technique has to defy falsification by the present evidence. We accept this as the central principle of stage magic. We accept it as the inevitable limitation of anecdotal happenstance. But we note further that deception -- innocent or otherwise -- presumes intent and effort to conceal evidence. Thus we assume, as above, that the paucity of evidence with which to falsify hypotheses does not preclude holding the presumption as reasonable.

In any case, it's fundamentally unreasonable for the null hypothesis to require antecedents whose existence has no evidentiary support. The null hypothesis should be the one whose proposed causes and effects are evidenced, if not outright factual.
 
Thank you everyone for your replies. I have a lot of reading to do.
I have generally met some nice mediums who haven't asked for money, I guess I have got to stop wondering if they have magical powers.
A medium once told me she can channel God, she then told me she channeled God and God has said that I have been created as academically unintelligent, this is why I go in search... if she did indeed channel God then it means I am unable to learn new things and my confidence has been broken
 
Thank you everyone for your replies. I have a lot of reading to do.
I have generally met some nice mediums who haven't asked for money, I guess I have got to stop wondering if they have magical powers.
A medium once told me she can channel God, she then told me she channeled God and God has said that I have been created as academically unintelligent, this is why I go in search... if she did indeed channel God then it means I am unable to learn new things and my confidence has been broken

Absurd.
Amy, the "medium who told you she could "channel God", is one of two things. She is either a major con with tricks up her sleeves, or she is seriously mentally ill. Don't allow bad people to influence your confidence.
 
Thank you :-)
This is why I have a fear of God existing because she claimed that God created me as academically unintelligent, after the reading I felt awful, felt like id become my own worst enemy. Stopped reading and started to believe I was thick and couldn't learn new things because God created me as academically inept.
 
Even then body language will give away a bucketload. During the "It begins with a 'd', no, a 'b' or maybe an 'f'" routine it's really difficult not to let it show in your face when one of the scattergun 'facts' hits.

A lot of poker players do this too. If you bet or raise, they might say "Do you have straight?" (or some other hand) They aren't really expecting you to answer the question, but they are hoping your body language ( a "tell" in poker lingo) will give them a clue.
 
I have generally met some nice mediums who haven't asked for money,

Money is not the only factor that motivates these people. Some simply want to feel better about themselves by imagining that they have abilities that others cannot have. They want others to treat them with respect or deference, or as if they had been chosen by some higher power. Some go to the extent of relishing the power they come to have over others, however little it may be. Not everyone who claims supernatural abilities has nefarious motives. But enough do that I feel skepticism is the better reaction.

I guess I have got to stop wondering if they have magical powers.

I daresay you'll be happier that way.

A medium once told me she can channel God, she then told me she channeled God and God has said that I have been created as academically unintelligent...

Rubbish. No, she does not channel God. And no, she has no prerogative to question your intelligence. People who say those kinds of things under those kinds of claims to authority have no business in your life that you need to respect.
 
Thank you Jay. Basically a few years ago I used to practice divination, I used it to try and communicate to 'god' and some very strange coincidences happened. I have always had a low level of confidence when it comes to my academic performance and so I asked 'god' through divination techniques he created me academically unintelligent and I felt like the answers were pointed to yes... I then asked a medium if this was true and she said she channeled God and confirmed my worse fears that indeed he created me academically unintelligent which in turn has halted me in going forward and learning new things which is what I love to do..

Now can you see why I am trying to debunk it all? All I want is my life back and to rid of this awful belief that god has created me as academically inept, it's had a massive negative impact on my life and my self confidence
 
Last edited:

Back
Top Bottom