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How do psychic mediums know stuff about you

It's written to an audience, a long time atheist won't find anything new in it, but for someone coming to the realisation that gods are not necessary or evidenced it's generally considered a good read. Dawkins is a good writer and I think you'll enjoy it. You might want to check out his two documentary mini series "Root of All Evil" & "Enemies of Reason" too.


I agree having read the book a couple of times.

Many of the ideas presented I had come to understanding of independently beforehand. I think the book is a good reference guide however and there is some material I found new and refreshing.
 
Late to the party but want to welcome you Amy. As you can see, there are a lot of folks here ready to help you navigate this world of hucksters and frauds.
 
If ghosts exist does this mean that mediums aren't fake because they claim to speak with the dead?
If Rolls-Royce's exist does this mean that I'm not lying because I claim to own six of them?
To put this rebuttal in a more generalized form that can be used in lots of other cases...

Questions or statements in "if-then" form are often syllogisms (things that actually have at least two inputs to yield one output when combined) with one of the inputs hidden. The proper form would be "if-if-then", such as "if this is the case and that other thing is also the case, then here's a conclusion (whether being asserted or asked about)", but one of the "if" parts is missing.

So the useful general rule when encountering or thinking up "if-then" stuff is to ask what other unspoken "if" would be required to get to that "then".

To apply that to the specific case you brought up, getting from "ghosts are real" to "mediums' claims about them are true" requires another piece, such as "if something is real, then people's claims about it are true". That kind or premise is built in to the question as if it were automatic, but do you really believe that premise yourself?

Can you think of another one that would satisfy the original syllogism (Statement X in "if ghosts are real and Statement X is also correct, then mediums' claims are true") that you do believe?

On another note I've just received a copy of Dawkins the God delusion, is it any good?
It sounds like "Demon-Haunted World is probably more applicable to the subjects you're interested in.

Don't think there is any culture in the world that hasn't historically claimed the dead speak to the living.
I've heard of two. One was the Pirahã, but they're famous in anthropology for being so weird & unlike other human cultures in so many ways that a basic description of them sounds like it must be a description of how some not-quite-modern-human relative of modern humans might have lived a couple million years ago, so nothing about them can really be taken as a sign of anything about people in general. And anyway, they do believe in some kinds of spirits, so that's not very far off.

The other was subject of an article titled something like "Shakespeare in the Bush", in which an anthropologist studying some tribe by living among them for a while decided to try to test the idea that Shakespeare is universal by telling them a Shakespeare story and seeing their reactions. When (s)he got to a scene with a ghost talking to a living character, they couldn't imagine why that character would be so scared to find out that a friend/relative (s)he thought was dead was actually alive. When the anthropologist said that character was dead, they'd say "But (s)he's walking & talking, so (s)he's alive". When the anthropologist described what the ghost did & said, they'd say "But you said that character was dead", and around & around they went. They tried imagining everything they could to infuse into the story to get it to make sense, like that it was somebody else in disguise or the living character didn't know what (s)he was seeing because (s)he had been cursed or poisoned. They were convinced the anthropologist was telling the story wrong because the idea of a character being both dead and alive at the same time was beyond merely wrong; it was something they had no concept of to even try to apply the idea of wrongness to.

That kind of thing certainly seems counter to the general trend in by far most human cultures, though.
 
Thanks guys, can I ask has James Randi debunked a lot of mediums, even ones who people believed are generally 'real'? There are quite a few people claiming that the medium knew so much about them, this kind of thing freaks me out.
 
There are quite a few people claiming that the medium knew so much about them, this kind of thing freaks me out.
That is all cold or even hot readings. this has been debunked lots of times, but you will never find a well-known medium voluntarily accepting a test, and I doubt that James Randi has tested any: they know they are fake.

Actually, some people who have been doing cold readings do not know that that is what they have been doing, and in the past we have had people who have told that discussions on this forum opened their eyes to the technique that they themselves thought was a psychic ability they had.

But I still think that well-known medium are well aware of the fraud they are committing.
 
Thanks guys, can I ask has James Randi debunked a lot of mediums, even ones who people believed are generally 'real'? There are quite a few people claiming that the medium knew so much about them, this kind of thing freaks me out.

A few people who seem to generally believe they have real abilities have taken the million dollar challenge over the years. All have failed, badly. As in "you need to get 9 out of 12 right, chance says you'll get 3", and they get 1 or 2 right. Yep, they usually do WORSE than chance from what I've seen.

The rest, the out-and-out fraudsters such as Sylvia Brown knew better than to ever be tested in the first place. They finally make a correct prediction that they'd fail :thumbsup:
 
Years ago, Randi did a tour of post-collapse Russia, which was already overrun with all manner of woo nonsense. (Televised on PBS)

He did a segment on a pair of “psychic” sisters who could look at a photograph of a person and tell you all about them....
Randi brought along a photo, and the sisters promptly began firing off a series of typical “fishing” questions. Randi remained silent and poker-faced.
The ladies started making wild guesses, noting that the fellow in the picture “looked nice” and seemed very handsome...

It was Ted Bundy.
 
A few people who seem to generally believe they have real abilities have taken the million dollar challenge over the years. All have failed, badly. As in "you need to get 9 out of 12 right, chance says you'll get 3", and they get 1 or 2 right. Yep, they usually do WORSE than chance from what I've seen.

The rest, the out-and-out fraudsters such as Sylvia Brown knew better than to ever be tested in the first place. They finally make a correct prediction that they'd fail :thumbsup:

As I recall, Sylvia Brown had an excuse for not taking the challenge. She said that though she would win, Randi didn't have a million dollars, so she figured, why bother?
 
As I recall, Sylvia Brown had an excuse for not taking the challenge. She said that though she would win, Randi didn't have a million dollars, so she figured, why bother?

Yeah, and then he offered to demonstrate that he totally did, in escrow or whatever, and Sylvia switched her tune to something like, "Oh well, my powers are influenced by skeptic negativity, and also, I don't NEED the money." So give it to charity, liarface.

I know she's dead, so I don't want to be too mean, but LIARFACE fits well.
 
Yeah, and then he offered to demonstrate that he totally did, in escrow or whatever, and Sylvia switched her tune to something like, "Oh well, my powers are influenced by skeptic negativity, and also, I don't NEED the money." So give it to charity, liarface.

I know she's dead, so I don't want to be too mean, but LIARFACE fits well.

I have no problem speaking ill of the dead, if it is about Sylvia Brown. "Too mean" isn't a problem. LIARFACE is far too mild. She was a MEAN, cruel, greedy, F-face, who is now where she belongs. May she be burning in hell.
 
I have no problem speaking ill of the dead, if it is about Sylvia Brown. "Too mean" isn't a problem. LIARFACE is far too mild. She was a MEAN, cruel, greedy, F-face, who is now where she belongs. May she be burning in hell.

No objection here :D.

I was just trying to ward off scoldings.
 
Amy: you may be interested in Randi’s book, Flim Flam. He has a section specifically on psychics along with all kinds of other stuff. I’d also recommend The Faith Healers which details psychic stuff masquerading as religion. To complete the trifecta, The Truth About Uri Geller, focuses on a dude who claimed all kinds of psychic powers. Any of these should give you a good idea of the same kinds of tricks and techniques used by mediums even today.
 
I have no problem speaking ill of the dead, if it is about Sylvia Brown. "Too mean" isn't a problem. LIARFACE is far too mild. She was a MEAN, cruel, greedy, F-face, who is now where she belongs. May she be burning in hell.


Must give those who believe in Hell a nice warm glow inside, to contemplate the suffering of those deserving to be there. This is one area where atheism lets us down. :mad:
 
Thanks guys, can I ask has James Randi debunked a lot of mediums, even ones who people believed are generally 'real'? There are quite a few people claiming that the medium knew so much about them, this kind of thing freaks me out.

No one here but me knows what they are talking about. I have experienced genuine mediums many times since the 1960's. Its not all hot and cold reading. I was told facts. Also I went to different spiritualist churches up and down the south of England. I saw many different mediums I had never seen before and they still knew factual stuff about me. One such medium came to me with a message and she said " I have got your grandmother here, she says she has been through to you many times before"

How could a medium I had never seen before in a church I had never been to before know that?
 
No one here but me knows what they are talking about. I have experienced genuine mediums many times since the 1960's. Its not all hot and cold reading. I was told facts. Also I went to different spiritualist churches up and down the south of England. I saw many different mediums I had never seen before and they still knew factual stuff about me. One such medium came to me with a message and she said " I have got your grandmother here, she says she has been through to you many times before"
How could a medium I had never seen before in a church I had never been to before know that?
In a game of chance, the very fact you are seeking out a medium, what are the chances this is the FIRST one? And if it is the first one, then a simple hand wave of "she's been trying to contact you unsuccessfully before" will suffice.
 
There are quite a few people claiming that the medium knew so much about them, this kind of thing freaks me out.
You really needn't be afraid. It's nothing more than people being talented at cold reading and for some, cheating further via hot reading.

Just because you don't understand how someone does something does not mean that the person doing that thing has any special powers. My favorite example of this is illusionist Criss Angel's levitating from one building to another. How he appeared to do that, I have no idea except that I know that he did not, in fact, fly from one rooftop to another.
 
You really needn't be afraid. It's nothing more than people being talented at cold reading and for some, cheating further via hot reading.

Just because you don't understand how someone does something does not mean that the person doing that thing has any special powers. My favorite example of this is illusionist Criss Angel's levitating from one building to another. How he appeared to do that, I have no idea except that I know that he did not, in fact, fly from one rooftop to another.
I once saw David Copperfield saw himself in half and put himself back together again. I have no idea how he did it. According to Scorpion's "logic" I should now be quite certain that it's possible for a man to saw himself in half and put himself back together again.
 
No one here but me knows what they are talking about.

Is this kind of arrogance something you got from Silver Birch, or is this of your own making?
Sheesh. :jaw-dropp


I have experienced genuine mediums many times since the 1960's. Its not all hot and cold reading. I was told facts. Also I went to different spiritualist churches up and down the south of England.

Strange, then, that despite the amazing accuracy and usefulness of these "genuine" mediums, you haven't been to see one for more than 30 years, and cannot name a single modern-day medium you think is the real deal.

Note: hubris is not educational.
Neither is anecdotal evidence.
 
Thanks guys, can I ask has James Randi debunked a lot of mediums, even ones who people believed are generally 'real'? There are quite a few people claiming that the medium knew so much about them, this kind of thing freaks me out.


AmyW, there is a section of this forum called "Randi Million Dollar Challenge". You should take a look at the claims and discussions there.

Not all are about mediums or spirits or ghosts, but many are.

Also, look at http://iighq.org/index.php/challenge for examples of the kind of "powers" or phenomena that people think are real.
 

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