a_unique_person
Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning
When the rest of the world shows it takes AGW seriously we can bring legitimate pressure to bear on China and India.
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Greta Thunberg - brave campaigner or deeply disturbed?
- Thread starter Matthew Best
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a_unique_person
Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning
The low hanging fruit is the easy fruit. You would think that the most technological advanced country in the world would be the most ready to deal with AGW. Instead it is acting with a mediaeval mindset the President is advocating that cars be made more dangerous.
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
That's only brave if she can't bear the thought of it, but does it anyway out of the courage of her convictions. If she's one of the many people (sensible and otherwise) for whom this kind of thing isn't a major concern, then there's not much bravery there.
I can't bear the thought of getting arrested and jailed for life by the Chinese government for daring to speak out about climate change there. So I'm not going to China to do that. Does that make me a coward? Perhaps. But no more of a coward than Thunberg.
Why pick on China when Americans are the major problem?! Their per-capita CO2 emissions are more than twice that the Chinese:
List of countries by carbon dioxide emissions: Fossil CO2 emissions by country/region (Wikipedia)
United States
5,085.897 5,971.571 5,107.393 13.77% 100.4% 519 15.7
China
2,397.048 6,263.064 10,877.218 29.34% 453.8% 1,133 7.7
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
I think bringing more pressure to bear on China and India would be a clear signal that we take AGW extremely seriously, and would thus legitimize itself in the act.
Jungle Jim
Graduate Poster
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The September 2019 climate strikes, also known as the Global Week for Future, are a series of international strikes and protests to demand action be taken to address climate change. The strikes' key dates include 20 September, which is three days before the United Nations Climate Summit, and 27 September,[2][3] together with the full week from 20 to 27 September proposed for a worldwide general climate strike called the Earth Strike. The protests are taking place across 4,500 locations in 150 countries.[4][5] The event is a part of the school strike for climate movement, inspired by Swedish climate activist Greta Thunberg.[6][7]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_2019_climate_strikes
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
China
No officially sanctioned protests were held in China. A spokesperson for the China Youth Climate Action Network, Zheng Xiaowen, said that "Chinese youth have their own methods" and that action would take place.[38][39] Some Chinese youths picked up trash in Beijing on 21 September.[26]
There was a protest in Hong Kong, but it seemed small and mostly foreign:
Photos: What the youth climate strike looks like around the world
In Hong Kong that was an earlier, larger climate focused protest in March, but the current event was largely cancelled due to safety concerns:
If that's a concern in Hong Kong, I imagine the fear of government crackdown would be much stronger in the rest of China.
Photos: What the youth climate strike looks like around the world
In Hong Kong that was an earlier, larger climate focused protest in March, but the current event was largely cancelled due to safety concerns:
If that's a concern in Hong Kong, I imagine the fear of government crackdown would be much stronger in the rest of China.
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Minoosh
Penultimate Amazing
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I always wonder how much of China's emissions come from manufacturing and shipping stuff to the rest of the planet, especially the U.S.
Americans buying less Chinese stuff arguably could put a dent in their emissions.
But I don't have the numbers. I do know that historically China has had a much lower standard of living. In the U.S. you turn on the tap expecting hot water. For a while as a kid I lived without electricity or running water. Turns out when you have to haul water in buckets to heat on a gas stove, you use a lot less hot water. China used to have, may still have, hot-water shops.
I think one of the things about per-capita emissions is that it becomes easier to see how much energy use is a matter of convenience. In the U.S. that's massive. We have the infrastructure to allow people to use lots of energy, sometimes to avoid even slight degrees of inconvenience. The stereotypical example is driving around and around a parking lot waiting for a space to open up closer to the door, when it would do most Americans good to walk a few extra yards carrying their groceries. Which might include fruit or flowers grown in South America because that's what U.S. consumers expect.
There is a social and economic value in these kinds of exchanges; it may mean more jobs in countries that could benefit from having a robust middle class. Teenagers have jobs corralling shopping carts that are abandoned in parking lots. So I resist condemning energy "waste," but I wonder if there is a way to optimize energy policy so that developing nations can keep developing but fall short of U.S. levels of energy convenience. IMO per-capita emissions are a valid metric for looking at where energy consumption can be trimmed. Whether civilization has developed the tools to discourage some consumption without crashing the global economy is an open question, though.
I honestly don't know how much Thunberg's scolding helps. But the arguments used to discredit her campaign are BS. "She should be in school." For millennia before public schools existed people still got educated - by private tutors, in apprenticeships and self-study. Trying to invalidate her message by saying she should be getting a standard secondary-school education seems like an inconsistent position for U.S. conservatives to take. She's probably learning more than most high school seniors are.
Americans buying less Chinese stuff arguably could put a dent in their emissions.
But I don't have the numbers. I do know that historically China has had a much lower standard of living. In the U.S. you turn on the tap expecting hot water. For a while as a kid I lived without electricity or running water. Turns out when you have to haul water in buckets to heat on a gas stove, you use a lot less hot water. China used to have, may still have, hot-water shops.
I think one of the things about per-capita emissions is that it becomes easier to see how much energy use is a matter of convenience. In the U.S. that's massive. We have the infrastructure to allow people to use lots of energy, sometimes to avoid even slight degrees of inconvenience. The stereotypical example is driving around and around a parking lot waiting for a space to open up closer to the door, when it would do most Americans good to walk a few extra yards carrying their groceries. Which might include fruit or flowers grown in South America because that's what U.S. consumers expect.
There is a social and economic value in these kinds of exchanges; it may mean more jobs in countries that could benefit from having a robust middle class. Teenagers have jobs corralling shopping carts that are abandoned in parking lots. So I resist condemning energy "waste," but I wonder if there is a way to optimize energy policy so that developing nations can keep developing but fall short of U.S. levels of energy convenience. IMO per-capita emissions are a valid metric for looking at where energy consumption can be trimmed. Whether civilization has developed the tools to discourage some consumption without crashing the global economy is an open question, though.
I honestly don't know how much Thunberg's scolding helps. But the arguments used to discredit her campaign are BS. "She should be in school." For millennia before public schools existed people still got educated - by private tutors, in apprenticeships and self-study. Trying to invalidate her message by saying she should be getting a standard secondary-school education seems like an inconsistent position for U.S. conservatives to take. She's probably learning more than most high school seniors are.
Loss Leader
I would save the receptionist., Moderator
The membership will note that a huge number of posts - 88 - were moved to AAH. Many involved climate change and may have been acceptable in that thread, but are off-topic in this one. Those were sent to AAH because they were so intertwined with sniping and incivility that sussing them out would have been a huge drain on moderator time. Further off-topic discussions or incivility will be actioned more harshly. Please stick to the topic. If your post only deals with climate change, amelioration, and how the US fits in with other countries, they are off topic. If you post insults another member, it is uncivil. Infractions and harsher mod action will follow. This is an official mod warning.
Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic Posted By: Loss Leader
Matthew Best
Penultimate Amazing
THE GRETA THUNBERG PROBLEM:
https://www.theguardian.com/comment...king-out-about-the-tiny-swedish-climate-demon
https://www.theguardian.com/comment...king-out-about-the-tiny-swedish-climate-demon
Greta Thunberg: How she convinced parents to be vegan and buy an electric car
And yet some claim the parents are manipulating and exploiting her?
And yet some claim the parents are manipulating and exploiting her?
I subscribe to First Dog on the Moon. Always brilliant.
The Great Zaganza
Maledictorian
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Brilliant!
Subscribe to it. It often has Australian topics, as the cartoonist is Australian, but they are all brilliant.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Marlton
Cheetah
Master Poster
If only we all were.
I guess, as always, the old reality challenged ones will just have to die out.
I guess, as always, the old reality challenged ones will just have to die out.
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Can you point us to where the actual numbers were recorded and the claims made.
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