How do we explain ghosts?

[Axxman300]

I fear that is the nature of ghosts, they don't leave hard evidence.

How would you know? IF they're real we STILL have no idea what we're looking for. We know they're not a gas, we know they're not a mass of some kind of energy (at least not something we can measure or identify), we know their not a liquid, we know they're not a solid. This narrows down the options to a small and crazy list. And frankly the possible list would be made up of particles that only exist for fractions of a second in a super collider, and that is equally silly as the spirits of the dead wandering around.

But...it would be something that could be tested for in the future if someone is rich enough and desperate enough. My money is on the test being negative.

Then again maybe someone will stumble upon something that kicks this phenomenon out of the Halloween store and into a proper science lab My point is that saying that ghosts are beyond science's ability to detect is lazy. Right now science already has explanations which are fantastic in their own right. In the end all things dealing with science comes down to money. You need equipment, involving a major university's physics department along with other science branches is a good idea, you need to commit to a project that might last a decade, and you have to be ready to spend a lot of money only to come up snake-eyes.

Who knows? Maybe someone will point some gadget in an empty room and make a breakthrough. That's the fun thing about science.

 

[Nessie]

The most used and accepted definition of a ghost is the disembodied spirit of a dead person. I’ve also heard it used, less often, in the sense of any kind of incorporeal entity, be it a dead person, a demon or some other entity.

So going with that definition, when one says, “It’s a ghost!” they very specifically mean incorporeal entity of some kind, usually a dead person.

Those footsteps you heard but can’t explain? When you say “ghost,” you are specifically saying it’s an incorporeal entity. I don’t understand how you get to that from such a mundane sound. There are literally thousands of things it could be and Abaddon gave an account of something you would probably never think of -a mouse running across hangers?! When I was a kid, I woke up and thought there was a ghost walking in my room but it was just the ceiling fan that started making a rhythmic sound like footsteps.

Yet for some people, an unexplained sound has to be a ghost. Why?

Because I could rule out any other explanation, which was pretty much limited to a structural cause within the hallway, to the sound.

And then there are the instances where multiple people hear/see something, conclude it’s a ghost and then seemingly brush it off. Say a bunch of people hear footsteps or see a person that isn’t supposed to be there. In those cases, why wouldn’t a thorough investigation be made right then and there? Why would you blow off something like that? I would instantly want to know if someone was there and if not, what the hell it was I just saw/heard. It stretches credulity to believe there was no curiosity about something that could have been an intruder or a danger. Like that story about the police and “what girl?” It’s just so unbelievable that people would act like that. If I were the cops, I’d immediately be questioning the person’s sanity while chasing down the person I saw. I certainly wouldn’t stand there dumbstruck. Which leads me to believe that the event didn’t happen that way at all.

Finally, if you want to go the ghost route...it’s a bit ridiculous to attribute unexplained sounds/visions/movements to something completely unproven. All you are really doing is opening up more questions, not answering anything at all.

What I am left with is that a ghost, or something totally unique and as yet unknown caused a ghost like phenomena.

 

[Nessie]

Doesn't that kind of go against your position that ghosts are ill defined or that all of this might need some other word or phrase to designate?

I do not see how and it was not meant to be.

It's okay, by all means believe, or, as in your case, speculate about, the ghost-ly explanation if you wish. I personally believe it's obnoxious to attack others' beliefs as long as they don't try to somehow stick it, directly or indirectly, down others' throats, which you aren't doing. It's, just, far as I can see, your position on this is a wee bit inconsistent.





Unusual sure, perhaps as you say freaky. But why ghost-ly, why that?

For instance, you mentioned time travelers. That seems as likely, and as unlikely, as ghosts, or aliens, or telepathic hive minds of local bacteria, or anything else. What about ghosts do you find more compelling than other similar outlandish hypotheses?

(Or were you channeling Whatsisname from that movie, Interstellar, the time-and-space-traveling ghost I mean? )

At the moment I am calling a phenomena that cannot be explained ghosts. It may be something else that has attributes we subscribe to ghosts, but is not a ghost.

There is so much baggage to ghosts that I think we are missing something genuine.

And they probably believe, or half-believe, or quarter-believe, in ghosts, so they may have thought of ghosts as explanation. But do you, if only a quarter, if only a teeny fraction, more than telepathic dolphins entertaining themselves by messing around with us humans' minds? (It's cool if you do, btw, far as I am concerned. I don't find ghosts more likely than telepathic bacterial hive minds, but I think that's purely subjective, and your subjective take is equally as valid, for you, as mine is for me -- as far as speculation, that is.)

My belief that there is such a thing as a ghost is not a strong belief. I am not certain there are ghosts.

But, due to my experience and the experiences of credible witnesses, I do believe that there is something out there that cannot be explained by creaking plumbing or our own projections.

 

[Pixel42]

Because I could rule out any other explanation

Can you really not see what a ridiculous statement this is? How can you possibly rule out explanations which didn't even occur to you? Like the black-and-white cow explanation, and the mouse running over the coat hangers explanation, didn't occur to the posters who told those anecdotes and never would have if they hadn't investigated at the time?

The fact that you can't think of a mundane explanation doesn't mean you can conclude there wasn't one. It astounds me that this needs to be pointed out even once on a sceptic forum, let alone continually restated in the same thread.

 

[Cosmic Yak]

I fear that is the nature of ghosts, they don't leave hard evidence.

If a ghost can make footsteps, it can make footprints.
Scatter flour on the floor.
Simples.

 

[The Common Potato]

At the moment I am calling a phenomena that cannot be explained ghosts. It may be something else that has attributes we subscribe to ghosts, but is not a ghost..

Why, and what are these attributes.

I saw a UFO a while ago - it turned out to be an airship. My not knowing what it was didn't automatically make it an alien craft.

 

[Nessie]

Can you really not see what a ridiculous statement this is? How can you possibly rule out explanations which didn't even occur to you? Like the black-and-white cow explanation, and the mouse running over the coat hangers explanation, didn't occur to the posters who told those anecdotes and never would have if they hadn't investigated at the time?

The fact that you can't think of a mundane explanation doesn't mean you can conclude there wasn't one. It astounds me that this needs to be pointed out even once on a sceptic forum, let alone continually restated in the same thread.

Whatever cause the sound of the footsteps down the hall, I could rule out that it was caused by

- someone walking down the hall, I could see there was no one there and I searched the house, the residents were in their beds and the doors to outside locked.
- creaky floorboards, there were none
- wind, it was a still night
- plumbing, there was no tap or anything on that would cause water to flow
- heating, it was not on (coal fired with a water pump I had to switch on to feed the radiators)
- subsidence, there were no issues with the house
- vermin under the house, no access to anything more than a mouse and a mouse could not make a noise that loud from under the house that could be heard in the house.
- the only object in the hall was a bookcase and the books did not move/fall over. They couldn't, it was so full.

I, or another adult could replicate the sound, by walking down the hall. I was in the house for 4 years and heard it only once. I spent a lot of time trying to figure out what caused the noise and found no source.

 

[Nessie]

Why, and what are these attributes.

I saw a UFO a while ago - it turned out to be an airship. My not knowing what it was didn't automatically make it an alien craft.

The brief appearance of something, who appears to be a real person, but is not.

If you see a UFO and you can rule out airships, planes, planets, lights etc, then you do have a UFO. What that UFO is, we do not know. Did it come from another planet? Unlikely. Is there something else out there we do not know about? Clearly yes.

That is my attitude towards the ghosts I describe. They are UFOs, for which there is no explanation, so they really are UFOs and they are caused by something that is not yet known to us.

 

[The Common Potato]

I made the assumption that it wasn't an alien craft because there is no evidence of such things existing. I'd do the same with a bump n the night.

Are you watching the rugby :-(

 

[Pixel42]

Whatever cause the sound of the footsteps down the hall, I could rule out that it was caused by

- someone walking down the hall, I could see there was no one there and I searched the house, the residents were in their beds and the doors to outside locked.
- creaky floorboards, there were none
- wind, it was a still night
- plumbing, there was no tap or anything on that would cause water to flow
- heating, it was not on (coal fired with a water pump I had to switch on to feed the radiators)
- subsidence, there were no issues with the house
- vermin under the house, no access to anything more than a mouse and a mouse could not make a noise that loud from under the house that could be heard in the house.
- the only object in the hall was a bookcase and the books did not move/fall over. They couldn't, it was so full.

I, or another adult could replicate the sound, by walking down the hall. I was in the house for 4 years and heard it only once. I spent a lot of time trying to figure out what caused the noise and found no source.

You can list all the possible explanations you were able to rule out until you're blue in the face, it won't make an iota of difference to the fact that you can't rule out all the possible explanations which didn't occur to you.

 

[P.J. Denyer]

Can you really not see what a ridiculous statement this is? How can you possibly rule out explanations which didn't even occur to you? Like the black-and-white cow explanation, and the mouse running over the coat hangers explanation, didn't occur to the posters who told those anecdotes and never would have if they hadn't investigated at the time?

The fact that you can't think of a mundane explanation doesn't mean you can conclude there wasn't one. It astounds me that this needs to be pointed out even once on a sceptic forum, let alone continually restated in the same thread.

This. Just what I was going to say but quicker & better written.

 

[8enotto]

Whatever cause the sound of the footsteps down the hall, I could rule out that it was caused by

- someone walking down the hall, I could see there was no one there and I searched the house, the residents were in their beds and the doors to outside locked.
- creaky floorboards, there were none
- wind, it was a still night
- plumbing, there was no tap or anything on that would cause water to flow
- heating, it was not on (coal fired with a water pump I had to switch on to feed the radiators)
- subsidence, there were no issues with the house
- vermin under the house, no access to anything more than a mouse and a mouse could not make a noise that loud from under the house that could be heard in the house.
- the only object in the hall was a bookcase and the books did not move/fall over. They couldn't, it was so full.

I, or another adult could replicate the sound, by walking down the hall. I was in the house for 4 years and heard it only once. I spent a lot of time trying to figure out what caused the noise and found no source.

Seasonal temperature changes and ground frost changes, day to night temp changes moving dissimilar materials at different expansion rates, stuff like that affects old buildings. They can be near impossible to detect because it's inside the structure.

I never knew how quiet a house could be until my current cement house.

 

[Nessie]

Seasonal temperature changes and ground frost changes, day to night temp changes moving dissimilar materials at different expansion rates, stuff like that affects old buildings. They can be near impossible to detect because it's inside the structure.

I never knew how quiet a house could be until my current cement house.

So how come I only heard it once?

How many factors can affect a hallway in a house?

 

[Pixel42]

So how come I only heard it once?

How many times do you suppose that black and white cow happened to walk up and down in exactly that position and exactly that direction during exactly the right misty conditions whilst a funeral was taking place in that cemetery?

How many factors can affect a hallway in a house?

I have no idea, and neither do you. Temperature, air pressure, wind direction, presence/absence of living things (including practical joking humans) are the first that spring to mind, but I'm sure there are many more.

 

[8enotto]

So how come I only heard it once?

How many factors can affect a hallway in a house?

Your logical perceived idea was walking in a hallway. Your fact is nobody was there. You can't even be sure the sound started in the hallway as it could have been the floor structure shifting or a wall, maybe both in an odd twist?

Check raw facts. Without allowing preconceived ideas in. How was the weather recently, lots of rain, a change in season or a lack of rain? Wood is never the same size two days in a row. It expands with humidity and contracts as it dries. The older the structure the more it moves. A simple fact.

 

[bluesjnr]

My kettle switched itself on once. I thought it was an electrical blip but now I've read more about these footsteps, I'm not so sure.

 

[Czarcasm]

Yes I guess they are only claims, just spooks me out and my thought was if ghosts exist then an afterlife exists. Am I wrong?

With all the real things there are to worry about, and the limited life span we have to spend time worrying about real things, do you really want to waste time worrying about imaginary things that might exist if other imaginary things exist?

 

[wasapi]

My kettle switched itself on once. I thought it was an electrical blip but now I've read ,ore about these footsteps, I'm not so sure.

Well of course it was supernatural. Your kettle is possessed!

 

[theprestige]

Because I could rule out any other explanation, which was pretty much limited to a structural cause within the hallway, to the sound.

No.

Earlier you said this, remember?

No, at the time I looked for various obvious possibles, such as I searched the house in case someone had come inside and I checked other residents to see if had been one of them (even though the steps had walked right by me and I saw no one).

I walked the route of the steps to see if I could replicate the noise, but I knew there were no creaking floor boards or anything like that.



I never heard the noise again, so that I could further investigate.

You "ruled out" what you considered at the time to be "obvious" possibilities.

You did not actually rule out every possibility. How could you, really? And even the stuff you did "rule out", it's not clear how conclusive your structural analysis actually was.

And that's before we get into the problems of unreliable perception, memory, and narration.

What I am left with is that a ghost, or something totally unique and as yet unknown caused a ghost like phenomena.

Or any one of the other mundane explanations that you didn't think of, didn't properly test, have not accurately reported, or are not reliably recollecting today.

"Ghost" is not something to be explained, in your anecdote. "Ghost" is your explanation, for better or worse. The consensus here seem to be "for worse".

 

[P.J. Denyer]

Well of course it was supernatural. Your kettle is possessed!

As with all such problems in home appliances be sure to call a qualified Electrocist.