Yes, a micro-fraction confirmed by a DNA test.
Elizabeth Warren Ancestry Thread Part 2
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Upchurch
Papa Funkosophy
A micro-fraction of DNA, but aren't all ancestors a micro-fraction given enough generations? The point is that she does have Native American ancestry, does she not?
Actually, to reiterate, the point really is that I think you are conflating different meanings for what is being claimed. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you seem to think she's claiming to be Native American in the sense she is claiming a protected societal status. Whereas, it seems to me that she is merely claiming to have a particular ancestry that she is proud of, even though it may be quite distant. In the latter, she is not wrong.
d4m10n
Penultimate Amazing
Eight generations back (at least) and thus unlikely to have been correctly reflected in family lore.
As I already clearly stated using the word "yes", yes.
Not my position at all. It's much simpler than that. I'm saying that when she wrote out "American Indian" as her RACE, that was BS. This wasn't an essay question. I provided you with a recreation of the actual prompt/reply that was on the form in my first post addressed to you. Way upthread FMW posted a link to the actual form.
<groundhog> I don't claim she benefited from this lie. I don't think she's unqualified to be POTUS based on this lie or anything else. It happened a long time ago. I would be delighted for her to be POTUS. </day>
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Upchurch
Papa Funkosophy
Maybe not precisely reflected in the detail but, at least in this case, still accurately reflected.
Out of curiosity, I decided to look up how many generations it's been since the Mayflower voyage, which I used in an earlier post. It's been 13 to 15 generations. There are people who are proud of that ancestry as well, despite being even further removed.
Upchurch
Papa Funkosophy
You contradict yourself. It certainly does not encompass the entirety of her racial background, but it is accurate. It is not a lie.
And, to be fair, it was a BS item to put on that form.
I suppose this is the crux of the disagreement for many here who don't consider it a lie.
if we go back far enough, I'm part African. As are you, as are we all. Do you think it would be truthful to claim your RACE is African American? If not why not?
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You haven’t been following the facts or this thread. Early reports were inaccurate. Six generations back, mapping to early 1800s and consistent with her family lore.
Close but no cigar. It's six to ten generations ago.
The Greater Fool
Illuminator
Yes, but Indians used to raise white kids as their own, so the relative could have been culturally indian unaware they had no actual native blood.
I must say, this is an amazing thread.
Upchurch
Papa Funkosophy
Or those who do consider it a lie. Why do you consider it a lie? This is the part I've not seen you support.
Well, that is an interesting question. To my knowledge, none of my ancestors would have been considered simultaneously African and American. All humans are of African decent, sure, but I doubt they even had a concept of race back then. I think all my ancestors had diverged by the time we had African Americans.
So, no, probably not.
Upchurch
Papa Funkosophy
That puts it, what? Revolutionary times?
Are the Daughters of the American Revolution BS?
The Shrike
Philosopher
Oh I remember the 1980s quite well. In fact, by the early 1990s I was working in a government office in which there was an Affirmative Action policy in place for all of our hires. We were forced to interview a person of color for every position. During the three years that I worked there, we never hired any of the Affirmative Action candidates because they simply weren't as qualified as other candidates. So my firsthand experience with Affirmative Action was that it played zero role in who got jobs, but it did give us a chance to consider candidates that implicit bias might have kept us from considering.
But that's neither here nor there. Check out this Wiki timeline:
- Elizabeth Warren started teaching law at Rutgers in 1977.
- She was tenured at the University of Houston, even rising to the rank of Associate Dean around 1980 or 1981.
- By 1983, she was a tenured Full Professor at the University of Texas, and she stuck around until 1987.
During this early part of her career, Elizabeth Warren was crushing it as a law professor. She was already tenured and had reached the highest academic rank at a major US university a good three years before she wrote in American Indian on her Texas Bar Association registration card in 1986. Therefore, unequivocally, her claim on her registration card could not have *helped her get that job* because she already had that job.
The gaming the Affirmative Action explanation simply does not hold water.
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And for reference, while Texas is rightly derided as a backwater state, UT's law school has long been considered a top 14 school. So, going from UT further up the hierarchy is not a huge jump. In fact, UH to UT was probably the most significant promotion in her career as UH is typically ranked around 50ish now, maybe even a bit lower back then.
We're at a deadlock here because you don't even acknowledge the claim as false. I take it you view her apology as snow job?
That's really weak. You're wiggling out on a technicality.
This wasn't an essay question asking Warren to opine on her fractional ancestry or her cultural concepts.
RACE: American Indian
That's not even apples and oranges. More like apples and meatloaf, and so vague as to be empty pontification.
But if this is a serious question, by all means lay out in detail what they said and in what context they said it.
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Stacyhs
Penultimate Amazing
Boy George's first failed band.
Upchurch
Papa Funkosophy
And you can't even explain how it is false, except through repetition of your claim that it is, even while acknowledging that she had Native American ancestry.
*Shrug* I view it as politics and picking your battles. Being technically correct on such a minor issue is not worth detailing the stuff that really matters.
More or less weak than wriggling out of supporting your claim for however many pages?
Would I put my race as African? Probably not. Any connection I have to the continent is long since lost to prehistory. My DNA test traced no specific markers to the area and I have no knowledge of any connection beyond a vague scientific understanding on the scale of hundreds of thousands of years.
To be honest, since my DNA test, I have considered identifying as Scandinavian...
And that is inaccurate how?
You could answer that it is incomplete but, as you mentioned, it was not an essay question. Any answer would necessarily be incomplete.
Upchurch
Papa Funkosophy
It is a serious question. Are you not familiar with the Daughters of the American Revolution? They are an organization made up of people who base at least part of their identity on having an ancestor who participated in the American Revolution over 240 years ago, approximately the same time frame as Warren's Native American ancestor(s).
Yes, they probably have more ancestors who did not participate in the American Revolution. Does that make the DAR BS?
Beelzebuddy
Penultimate Amazing
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He could put his money where his mouth is by going to the next DAR meeting and calling them all liars. That'll go over well with that bunch.