Elizabeth Warren Ancestry Thread Part 2

TragicMonkey said:
I read it, but this thread is about Warren and not the philosophy of diversity.
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For me, the question of Warren's claims about her ancestry is a question of the philosophy of diversity.

And for me, it's less important what Warren thinks about her own ancestry (then or now), and more important what Warren thinks about self-identity and diversity policy in America.

As a presidential candidate who has in the past played fast and loose with diversity, and who is now taking the approach of "I apologized, what more do you want?", it seems like a relevant question. I'd like to see her give a coherent explanation of her administration's diversity policy, and her philosophy of diversity that informs it.
 
theprestige said:
For me, the question of Warren's claims about her ancestry is a question of the philosophy of diversity.

And for me, it's less important what Warren thinks about her own ancestry (then or now), and more important what Warren thinks about self-identity and diversity policy in America.

As a presidential candidate who has in the past played fast and loose with diversity, and who is now taking the approach of "I apologized, what more do you want?", it seems like a relevant question. I'd like to see her give a coherent explanation of her administration's diversity policy, and her philosophy of diversity that informs it.
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No doubt you demand the same of all the candidates, right? Because you're genuinely concerned about diversity and not just manufacturing an excuse to attack one particular candidate.
 
However, where diversity mattered, didn't she mark herself as white/caucasian?

Ancestry and tribal membership are separate issues. They used to be entirely distinct before tribes started requiring an ancestor on a list, when anyone could join the tribe if they put the work in. Meeting up with some lawyer students who were part of tribes could well have been the first step for Warren to get connected to a tribe, if it had gone anywhere.
 
White woman claims to be Native American, but it's okay, because nothing came of it.

But is it really okay?

Isn't the point that something should come of identifying as Native American? What about actual Native Americans? Isn't their status as actual Native Americans supposed to mean something?

Why is it important that she apologize, if the claim is meaningless? Why is it important that whatever tribe accepted her apology, if the claim is meaningless? Is the tribe just perpetuating the entire meaningless Native American cosplay that Warren indulged in? Or is there more to it than that?
 
theprestige said:
White woman claims to be Native American, but it's okay, because nothing came of it.

But is it really okay?

Isn't the point that something should come of identifying as Native American? What about actual Native Americans? Isn't their status as actual Native Americans supposed to mean something?

Why is it important that she apologize, if the claim is meaningless? Why is it important that whatever tribe accepted her apology, if the claim is meaningless? Is the tribe just perpetuating the entire meaningless Native American cosplay that Warren indulged in? Or is there more to it than that?
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Just Asking Questions!
 
TragicMonkey said:
No doubt you demand the same of all the candidates, right? Because you're genuinely concerned about diversity and not just manufacturing an excuse to attack one particular candidate.
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I'm genuinely concerned about diversity policy. Warren's case is interesting because it highlights some of the questions I have about diversity policy. I'd be happy if any candidate had something coherent and meaningful to say about it. But I think that given the specific nature of the controversy in Warren's case, it totally makes sense to ask her to say something about it.

Again, for me, this is less about Warren, and more about diversity policy. You're the one who keeps trying to force it back into a narrow attack on Warren.
 
Native American status means nothing. Tribal affiliation is everything. That's why the tribe wanted an apology, because she used the tribe's name.

Feel free to make a thread on diversity. Or didn't you already, and it died?
 
theprestige said:
Hoping to spark some discussion, actually. Hoping you'll participate a bit.
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Start a thread. A thread titled "Elizabeth Warren" is about one candidate. This is why you are tragically misunderstood when your genuine interest in diversity is cruelly mistaken as being about Elizabeth Warren, of all possible people.
 
theprestige said:
For me, the question of Warren's claims about her ancestry is a question of the philosophy of diversity.

And for me, it's less important what Warren thinks about her own ancestry (then or now), and more important what Warren thinks about self-identity and diversity policy in America.

As a presidential candidate who has in the past played fast and loose with diversity, and who is now taking the approach of "I apologized, what more do you want?", it seems like a relevant question. I'd like to see her give a coherent explanation of her administration's diversity policy, and her philosophy of diversity that informs it.
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You used quotes for that statement. Can you cite where Warren actually said that?

If not, can you at least cite where she implied that (cite must include the 'what more do you want' part).
 
Drewbot said:
Warren is a 'Pretendian'

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...ntity-isnt-your-plaything-mascots-pocahotties
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Oh dear... the very first paragraph debunks your claim

Are you a Pretendian? If you’ve ever worn a feathered headdress, clad yourself in head-to-toe Navajo prints or claimed without evidence that one of your great-great-great grandparents had some Native blood as a way to derail an argument about your white privilege, you’re the kind of person we Native Americans shame as seeking to co-opt Native identity.​

I am not aware of any occasions on which Warren has "worn a feathered headdress" or clad herself in head-to-toe Native American prints. Perhaps you can enlighten us all by citing evidence that she has?

I am not aware of any evidence that she has tried to 'derail an argument about her white privilege'. Perhaps you can cite evidence of this too?

What I am aware of is that she does have actual evidence of Native American ancestry.

NB: Warren's name is not mentioned at all in the article.
 
Stacyhs said:
I would have loved to see Trump and Obama in a debate. Obama would have wiped the floor with him.
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Clinton mopped the floor with Trump three times, but she's a woman and tens of millions of morons had been conditioned to hate her so even her 3 million more votes weren't enough for her to win the election.
 
There's also the premise that Warren claimed her Native ancestry (which is now proven) on her membership roll for the Texas bar to help Warren. That isn't clear to me at all. Much more in keeping with her attitudes toward social justice would be Warren registering as American Indian so that she might be in a better position to provide services (maybe even pro bono?) to Native Americans? Imagine a 30-years' younger and more idealistic Elizabeth Warren for a moment and I don't think "conniving grifter" will come to mind.

Also, explain this to me: Warren identifies as American Indian on her Texas Bar membership card. Okay. First off, her name is "Elizabeth Warren" not "Sunbeam Crow". She shows up in person somewhere. She's not wearing buckskins and beads. She looks like she just fell out of the Talbot's catalogue. The notion that she was trying to fool anyone into thinking she wasn't a white woman is ludicrous. Clearly she had some other motivation for claiming her <actual> Native heritage. She wasn't trying to pull a fast one to get ahead; there's no way such a ruse could possibly have been successful.
 
The Shrike said:
There's also the premise that Warren claimed her Native ancestry (which is now proven) on her membership roll for the Texas bar to help Warren. That isn't clear to me at all.
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Let me help: it is unpublished and could not help her in any way.
 
The Shrike said:
Clinton mopped the floor with Trump three times, but she's a woman and tens of millions of morons had been conditioned to hate her so even her 3 million more votes weren't enough for her to win the election.
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I agree. I watched the three debates and laughed at Trump's debating performance. Unsurprisingly, Trump claimed 'I won" even though Clinton was commonly considered the winner in all three.
 
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